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Muzzle Loading

Old 02-02-2006, 04:45 AM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
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Default Muzzle Loading

In 2004 was my first year to use a ML. Knight in-line, MK-50, older but a gift. Anyway, wasn't real impressed with ML, seems more complicated then most of the hunting I have done and never got it sighted in. The primer would fire but the powder wouldnt ignite, tried cleaning the bore, and the nipple, etc, there at the range, after the third time, I went home, thought about dropping the gun into the river. However, don't really have anyone to help or mentor. Guy at the stored said bore butter would work. So what is the right way to use a ML, step by step, load shoot, and then what? [&:]
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:30 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

Sounds like you should just send it to me and I will dispose of it for you. Too much trouble for sure! LOL. Either I or some of the other guys that know more than I will give you some instruction. Don't have time right now except to say that the gun need to be cleaned really, really well before you take it back out to shoot. Both the barrel and the breech plug. More later.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:06 AM
  #3  
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

JLmoore1956

Bad timing on my part looking at this post just before I have to go to work. Bore Butter probably is not the answer to you problem. It may actually help cause your problem. Bore butter is a good product if it is used correctly.

But first give us a little more information, what type of ignition were you using? - I assuming #11 caps, what type of powder? old powder new powder - what type of projectile? conical - sabot -prb?

The cleaning process can be a long dury process, but once you master it - it becomes like riding a bike. If the gun is new to you and/or has not been used in recent times - best to really clean it well. I have a process that i use and each of us has developed a process we each use. Mine sounds rather lengthly. There is a step in it which i do your BB so often people disagree but it certainly works for me. If you are interested I will try to get it up tonight after school and errands.

Cayugad has his process memorized so he will undoubtedly get his posted before I am able to and it is a good one - I just add one more step.

Good luck - cause once you get the rifle shooting you will really enjoy it - it really gets addictive.


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Old 02-02-2006, 11:17 AM
  #4  
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

ORIGINAL: JLmoore1956

In 2004 was my first year to use a ML. Knight in-line, MK-50, older but a gift. Anyway, wasn't real impressed with ML, seems more complicated then most of the hunting I have done and never got it sighted in. The primer would fire but the powder wouldnt ignite, tried cleaning the bore, and the nipple, etc, there at the range, after the third time, I went home, thought about dropping the gun into the river. However, don't really have anyone to help or mentor. Guy at the stored said bore butter would work. So what is the right way to use a ML, step by step, load shoot, and then what? [&:]


If the primer was going off then you have half the battle won. First thing you need to do is clean all the bore butter and other oils and crud out of the rifle, the breech plug, the nipple, everything. Really break the rifle down and clean it good. I am guessing it is a .50 caliber MK-85 which was and still is one of the best muzzleloaders Knight ever made.

Start each shoot with a clean, back to metal clean rifle. To get the oils out of the rifle I take a patch and put alcohol on it. I then swab the barrel with that patch. The alcohol will remove the gun oils and dust that have collected in there. After the alcohol patch, run a dry patch down the rifle bore. This is to make sure every thing is good and dry. Now put a #11 cap on the nipple and fire that through the rifle. This will blow out any oil that might have collected in the nipple and the breech plug. I usually fire three #11 caps through the nipple for this purpose. Before shooting the last of the caps, put a clean dry patch on the ramrod and push that to the bottom of the breech. Now fire the last #11 cap and pull the patch. It should show burn marks.If it does you are ready to load the rifle. If it does not, there is something blocking the breech plug and you need to do a better job of cleaning.

Lets assume the patch had burn marks on it. Now consider your powder. How old is the powder you are trying to shoot? Also since this is a older model Knight shooting most likely a #11 cap, use loose powder, no pellets for this one. If the powder is old or you have any doubts about it, replace it with new powder. To test the old powder take some tin foil and place it outside on a flat surface. Put about 5 to10 grains of powder on the tin foil and with a long nose lighter, set it off. (make sure there is not gun powder around when you do this) It should flash real fast. If it does not, it might be old, might be damp, a number of things. If you doubt your powder replace it.

So you dump the new powder down it.. about 85-100 grains and put a 240 or 300 grain XTP on that rifle, cap it, it should fire. The main thing is keep the bore butter out of the barrel or at least make sure you remove all traces of the stuff before you try to load the rifle. Start the rifle on a clean oil and other free barrel with a clean dry breech plug and nipple and there is no reason why it should not fire.

Here is my list of what I do when I get a new rifle and want to shoot it. If it says 209 ignition, in your case I am sure it would be a #11 cap.



If I were in your shoes....

#1 unpack the rifle and look it over.
#2 read the manual cover to cover until you UNDERSTAND the contents of it
#3 clean the rifle including all parts
#4 use a quality breech plug grease and grease the threads of the breech plug then screw the breech plug back in to the rifle finger tight only... do not crank on that plug. In fact after I put them in finger tight, I then turn them back about an 1/8th of a turn.


You are now ready to prepare to shoot the rifle

#5 swab the barrel of the rifle with a patch with some alcohol on it.
#6 push a dry patch to the bottom of the barrel on a jag and fire a 209 primer into that patch. Then pull the patch and check it to make sure the fire from the primer is coming through the breech plug into the barrel
#7 shoot off three more 209 primers. This will make sure the breech plug is clean and also put a light fowling in the barrel for you.

You are now ready to load the rifle

#8 measure out and place 100 grains of powder in the rifle in pellet or loose form, pouring or dropping this down the barrel.
#9 put the correct size projectile in to the correct size sabot and place that sabot into the crown of the muzzle. This is where I take a wad of patch material, put it over the nose of the projectile and push the projectile under the crown of the muzzle with my thumb. The patch material is more for the benefit of my thumb and not the projectile.
#10 with the long end of your short starter push the projectile into the bore of the rifle
#11 with your correct loading jag attached to the end of your range rod or ramrod push the projectile in as smooth a downward fashion as possible until you feel the projectile hit the powder charge. Make sure the projectile is seated firmly on the powder charge.
#12 leaving your ramrod still in the barrel of the rifle resting on the projectile, take a piece of masking tape and wrap the tape even to the end of the muzzle around your ramrod. This is called the Witness Mark and every time you load the rifle with the same powder charge and projectile you should reach this mark where the tape will be level to the muzzle of the rifle. With the Witness mark now in place on the ramrod
#13 REMOVE THE RAMROD FROM THE BARREL OF THE RIFLE
#14 place a 209 shotgun primer on the breech plug of the rifle located at the breech end of the barrel.
#15 With a target at 25 or 50 yards fire your first shot of out of the rifle
#16 take a patch with a cleaning solution and using a bore brush or cleaning jag on the end of a second ramrod preferably which you will use for swabbing the barrel only, run a wet patch down the barrel. When swabbing the barrel run the patch in short strokes starting at the muzzle. I like to run about four inches at a time in a back and fourth motion, increasing the length of the stroke and patch until I am finally all the way to the breech end of the rifle.
#17 run one or two dry patches down the barrel again in short strokes running from the muzzle to the breech to dry all the moisture out of the barrel. This will also remove extra fowling
#18. It is a good idea to take your time here. I like to swab the barrel clean, and then walk to the target and check the target before I even load the next shot. This gives the barrel time to cool. It also gives you time to calm down, relax and consider what you might have done right or wrong.
#19 now load your rifle in the exactsame manner as you did the first time. Make sure you reach your witness mark. Aim for the same spot on the target as you did the first time. Do not adjust your point of aim because of where your first shot hit. Try and hold the rifle the same as you did the first time, with the same sight picture, and fire the second shot.
#20 After seven to ten shots on the range take your breech plug wrench and just twist the breech plug back and fourth. You do not have to remove it. All you are doing is making sure that the breech plug is not seizing in the breech. And wipe off any excess fowling on the breech plug or that area with isopropyl alcohol on a patch or Q-tip
#21 After you have fired a few shots check the size of the group you are getting. If you are satisfied with it, great. You can decide if you want to increase/decrease the powder charge at this point, adjust the sights or scope (which I do not recommend until you are really happy with the group you are shooting), or just keep shooting the same load having fun....

I am sure I forgot a lot of steps and ask other posters to help me out, and you out by correcting me here... this should get you moving on the range...
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:18 PM
  #5  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

No need for me to add anything after the last post, except don't be intimidated by the number of steps involved. Once you have done it a couple of times, they become second nature and you WILL become addicted. Just want to emphasize what was said already: use loose powder and be sure it is not too old. If in question, buy some new. Not that expensive.

Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:40 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

[8D]
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:40 PM
  #7  
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:40 PM
  #8  
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

[8D]
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:42 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

Thanks that really helps. Can I send you a PM of email is better if I have more question, the army blocks things a lot and cant always get on here and ask questions or do what I need to do!

Jeff
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:45 PM
  #10  
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Muzzle Loading

ORIGINAL: cayugad

ORIGINAL: JLmoore1956

In 2004 was my first year to use a ML. Knight in-line, MK-50, older but a gift. Anyway, wasn't real impressed with ML, seems more complicated then most of the hunting I have done and never got it sighted in. The primer would fire but the powder wouldnt ignite, tried cleaning the bore, and the nipple, etc, there at the range, after the third time, I went home, thought about dropping the gun into the river. However, don't really have anyone to help or mentor. Guy at the stored said bore butter would work. So what is the right way to use a ML, step by step, load shoot, and then what? [&:]


If the primer was going off then you have half the battle won. First thing you need to do is clean all the bore butter and other oils and crud out of the rifle, the breech plug, the nipple, everything. Really break the rifle down and clean it good. I am guessing it is a .50 caliber MK-85 which was and still is one of the best muzzleloaders Knight ever made.

Start each shoot with a clean, back to metal clean rifle. To get the oils out of the rifle I take a patch and put alcohol on it. I then swab the barrel with that patch. The alcohol will remove the gun oils and dust that have collected in there. After the alcohol patch, run a dry patch down the rifle bore. This is to make sure every thing is good and dry. Now put a #11 cap on the nipple and fire that through the rifle. This will blow out any oil that might have collected in the nipple and the breech plug. I usually fire three #11 caps through the nipple for this purpose. Before shooting the last of the caps, put a clean dry patch on the ramrod and push that to the bottom of the breech. Now fire the last #11 cap and pull the patch. It should show burn marks.If it does you are ready to load the rifle. If it does not, there is something blocking the breech plug and you need to do a better job of cleaning.

Lets assume the patch had burn marks on it. Now consider your powder. How old is the powder you are trying to shoot? Also since this is a older model Knight shooting most likely a #11 cap, use loose powder, no pellets for this one. If the powder is old or you have any doubts about it, replace it with new powder. To test the old powder take some tin foil and place it outside on a flat surface. Put about 5 to10 grains of powder on the tin foil and with a long nose lighter, set it off. (make sure there is not gun powder around when you do this) It should flash real fast. If it does not, it might be old, might be damp, a number of things. If you doubt your powder replace it.

So you dump the new powder down it.. about 85-100 grains and put a 240 or 300 grain XTP on that rifle, cap it, it should fire. The main thing is keep the bore butter out of the barrel or at least make sure you remove all traces of the stuff before you try to load the rifle. Start the rifle on a clean oil and other free barrel with a clean dry breech plug and nipple and there is no reason why it should not fire.

Here is my list of what I do when I get a new rifle and want to shoot it. If it says 209 ignition, in your case I am sure it would be a #11 cap.



If I were in your shoes....

#1 unpack the rifle and look it over.
#2 read the manual cover to cover until you UNDERSTAND the contents of it
#3 clean the rifle including all parts
#4 use a quality breech plug grease and grease the threads of the breech plug then screw the breech plug back in to the rifle finger tight only... do not crank on that plug. In fact after I put them in finger tight, I then turn them back about an 1/8th of a turn.


You are now ready to prepare to shoot the rifle

#5 swab the barrel of the rifle with a patch with some alcohol on it.
#6 push a dry patch to the bottom of the barrel on a jag and fire a 209 primer into that patch. Then pull the patch and check it to make sure the fire from the primer is coming through the breech plug into the barrel
#7 shoot off three more 209 primers. This will make sure the breech plug is clean and also put a light fowling in the barrel for you.

You are now ready to load the rifle

#8 measure out and place 100 grains of powder in the rifle in pellet or loose form, pouring or dropping this down the barrel.
#9 put the correct size projectile in to the correct size sabot and place that sabot into the crown of the muzzle. This is where I take a wad of patch material, put it over the nose of the projectile and push the projectile under the crown of the muzzle with my thumb. The patch material is more for the benefit of my thumb and not the projectile.
#10 with the long end of your short starter push the projectile into the bore of the rifle
#11 with your correct loading jag attached to the end of your range rod or ramrod push the projectile in as smooth a downward fashion as possible until you feel the projectile hit the powder charge. Make sure the projectile is seated firmly on the powder charge.
#12 leaving your ramrod still in the barrel of the rifle resting on the projectile, take a piece of masking tape and wrap the tape even to the end of the muzzle around your ramrod. This is called the Witness Mark and every time you load the rifle with the same powder charge and projectile you should reach this mark where the tape will be level to the muzzle of the rifle. With the Witness mark now in place on the ramrod
#13 REMOVE THE RAMROD FROM THE BARREL OF THE RIFLE
#14 place a 209 shotgun primer on the breech plug of the rifle located at the breech end of the barrel.
#15 With a target at 25 or 50 yards fire your first shot of out of the rifle
#16 take a patch with a cleaning solution and using a bore brush or cleaning jag on the end of a second ramrod preferably which you will use for swabbing the barrel only, run a wet patch down the barrel. When swabbing the barrel run the patch in short strokes starting at the muzzle. I like to run about four inches at a time in a back and fourth motion, increasing the length of the stroke and patch until I am finally all the way to the breech end of the rifle.
#17 run one or two dry patches down the barrel again in short strokes running from the muzzle to the breech to dry all the moisture out of the barrel. This will also remove extra fowling
#18. It is a good idea to take your time here. I like to swab the barrel clean, and then walk to the target and check the target before I even load the next shot. This gives the barrel time to cool. It also gives you time to calm down, relax and consider what you might have done right or wrong.
#19 now load your rifle in the exactsame manner as you did the first time. Make sure you reach your witness mark. Aim for the same spot on the target as you did the first time. Do not adjust your point of aim because of where your first shot hit. Try and hold the rifle the same as you did the first time, with the same sight picture, and fire the second shot.
#20 After seven to ten shots on the range take your breech plug wrench and just twist the breech plug back and fourth. You do not have to remove it. All you are doing is making sure that the breech plug is not seizing in the breech. And wipe off any excess fowling on the breech plug or that area with isopropyl alcohol on a patch or Q-tip
#21 After you have fired a few shots check the size of the group you are getting. If you are satisfied with it, great. You can decide if you want to increase/decrease the powder charge at this point, adjust the sights or scope (which I do not recommend until you are really happy with the group you are shooting), or just keep shooting the same load having fun....

I am sure I forgot a lot of steps and ask other posters to help me out, and you out by correcting me here... this should get you moving on the range...
thanks that really helps. Any chance I can email with questions as they arise. I am in Iraq and the Army blocks some things or charges quota time and email is best bet to talk.

thanks Jeff
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