Changed to these from a CCI 209. The cleanup is wonderful; however, using the same charge of powder, my groups went from 1.5" to over 4". Also, at the range, I had 2 of these misfire. The cleanup is nice -- but no thanks.

are you shooting pellets or loose powder?

That's interesting. I use the Remington Kleenbore and haven't had a problem, but admittedly have only shot 20 or so rounds thus far through a new Omega.

I didn't realilze until reading here that some primers are hotter than others. Someone suggested that the Winchester primers are the hottest.

i got a box of these just to see if they were anybetter than what i was using. I shot one of the rem's with no load,took a good look at the fouling,cleaned it then put one of the cci in without a load .Both had the same amount of fouling and the rem sounded like a dud. you can have mine if you want them, just dig through the garbage at the pontotoc co.dump.

Winchester W209 primers are actually a good primer in my rifle. Winchester WML209 are junk. There are hotter primers out there. They were brought out I think to combat the new Remington Kleenbore Primers. They come in a nice package and claim to be made for muzzle loaders. Well technically any 209 primer is made for muzzleloaders. I used the WML in my Black Diamond XR and it blew the nipple apart. I suspect these are nothing more then standard shotgun primers. I have been shooting the Kleenbore Primers in my Knight Disc, and Black Diamond and have had no problems with ignition. But I shoot loose powder and normally Goex on top of that. That was way I wondered if the people that are having problems with the Kleenbore Primers are shooting Pellets which might be harder to ignite then loose powder.

I've got about 30-40 shots with the new Kleenbores. I got to say they tightened up my groups and I have less fouling in the barrel. Before with the winchester 209's for shot gun primer I had 4-6" groups at 100 yds. I dropped down to 2" groups with just changing the primer. I was going to try the 25 acp's but the Rem works. I shoot 100 gr. 777 pellets with a 250 shockwave. I felt comfertable to shoot milk jugs at 200 yds. Aimed at the top and over 6" for wind and watch them explode... now that was fun!

Iv herd there great and now from this post i dont know what to think. Ill find out tho if i ever get to shoot my muzzleloader. I have the primers and pellets. Had this thing for about 2 or 3 years now and never shot it lol.

i have been shooting Remington 209-4 (410) shotshell primers for several years now. They have never failed me in any weather. I am shooting t7-2f loose powder so I can not speak to Pellet Powder - I can see where they might be a little more difficult to ignite.

I shoot 90g T-7 loose ffg. When my groups opened up, I thought I might play around with the powder charge and find the magic number, but when the misfires occurred, I went back to what works. You know I gotta play around......it keeps me sane.

Roseaukaine

I am shooting 100 grains of loose 260/300 grain bullets in Nosler or MMP HPH-24 sabots - from a 26" barrel - I really believe I am getting total ignition of all the powder - using a hotter primer would insure total ignition. Shooting across a chrono seems to indicate things are working... Changing to the cooler Kleenbores might show an end result of less velocity form the barrel especially in a 24" barrel.

Just thinking out loud...