i must have been loading my M/L's wrong for the last 20 years. the only borebutter in my barrel is what i have melted into my patch. all the butter from storage is cleaned out and the barrel is dried before i load up. there is just enough to help the ball slide down the barrel. i do not know about anyone else but there is not hardly enough for the powder to even stick to the barrel. i only have three M/L's but they all seem to shoot just fine doing this without a fouling shot. why would anyone use heavy doses of butter

When used as a bore lube to keep the bore from rusting whilestored.

randyh, what load and bullet are you using?

I went out shooting my muzzle loader for my next to last "test run"before elk season. I basically needed to find out just this case. Will I have a clean or fowled barrel when I go out. Well, after the other day, I have determined I will surely have a dirty bore!! I am hitting almost 8" to the left at 60 yards, but the next three shots (without swabbing between) from my T/C speedloaders hit right where I aimed - the heart/lung area just behind the front shoulder. I will be going out one more time in the next 12 days to confirm this with a dirty bore to start, but I am sure it will work.

BTW - I am shooting 80 grains of Goex 2f and a 370 grain T/C Maxi-Ball.

Charlie Brown, I have the same problem and am hoping someone will tell us how to fix it before hunting season! I have a Euroarms 1858 Enfield. I use 85 grains of RS Pyrodex and use Thompson Center Maxi Hunter bullets. My first shot does the exact same thing yours does. After my first shot, she is right on. Obviously, I can't fire the gun before I go to my blind in the morning. Anyone have any ideas?

Read my above post; just pop a cap or two in the empty barrel before you load it for hunting!

BS - 240 GR. Hornandy XTP MAG's with 2 - 50gr. pyrodex pellets out of a Traditions Pursuit LT.

I had the same problems with a 54 cal and sabots, about 200 rounds later, I found that if I lubed the barrel for the first shot, it moved the saboted bullet 7"s to the right, bact to the same impact point as the dirty barrel. I was using natural lube 1000........[lightly lube, load, then slime the heck out of the barrel]...also in hunting season, if you leave the gun loaded, you need to swab the barrel with lube, about every two days!

As they say, Your Results May Vary!

For my gun that is not enough. I needs some REAL FOWLING. There has to be burnt powder residue in the bore for it to shoot where I want it to. I have experienced this in the past, but have never really put it on paper. Even before target practicing, I would load 50 grains of RS and a round ball and shoot that off to be sure there is enough fowling in the bore. Now it is just a habit for me to do so, but I wanted to be sure that it was needed before hunting season came around.

skeetabop - what I would suggest (and what I am going to do) is fowl the bore with a light load with a round ball a day or two before your hunt. Then put your hunting load on top. I have left my charge in the barrel for a few days, just to check and have not lost my POI, which leads me to believe I didn't lose any power either. After you are done hunting for the weekend, shoot the load, clean the barrel, and then do the same thing before you go out next time. In my case, I will be doing that mid-hunt, as I will be out for 9 days straight, so I will leave the load in for a couple of days, then shootit off, clean the gun, fowl the barrel, and restart. I will most likely do this in the afternoon sometime while at camp.

Although I don't have the first shot problem discussed in this post, I have left my barrel fouled several times for a whole week with no ill results. Stainless steel Black Diamondburning Pyrodex. I would imagine some of these new powders like Pinnacle or BM3 might be even less corrosive.