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About Smokeless Muzzleloading

Old 07-14-2005, 06:01 PM
  #21  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

ORIGINAL: cayugad

Although if I were to buy a new inline it would be a White Super 91 or a T/C Omega. Although I have a few reservations about the White Super 91. Not based on the quality of the rifle but the quality of the parent company.
If you are interested in a Super 91, there is only one way to go-- and that is to get one from Doc White himself. The Super 91 II is quite reasonable, Doc has them readily available, and beds / accurizes them for you as well.

Just give Doc a call-- he's a great guy, and that's the place to get a Super 91 . . . direct from the originator himself.[8D]
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:35 PM
  #22  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

Randy love your posts when you talk to us as an informed shooter but hate it when you run commercials as well. I go to all the mfg sites as most people who care enough about the sport to post here probabally do. We know about the rifle we all know about your fight with Toby we are here for sharing information starting the thread for your own enrichment is tacky and below a good company like Savage Arms. I almost wonder if Savage themselves are behind you posting like this?

Doesn't matter keep helping other posters.
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Old 07-15-2005, 05:34 AM
  #23  
BS
 
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

" I almost wonder if Savage themselves are behind you posting like this?"

Randy, please just answer yes or no,....are you getting paid to participate on these forums?

Wondering folks want to know.
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:36 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

I tend to bet, he may not being paid directly, but indirectly with firearms to test, or interviews with people so he can get some bucks with an article. Either way it goes, I dont' think it belongs on here.
 
Old 07-15-2005, 09:55 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

Hey, I love modern centerfire rifles and hunt with them.
I love to shoot blackpowder rifles, and I hunt with them. I personally like my "smokepoles" to look like the guns did before the technology of the centerfire cartridge came about, and to do otherwise is pointless IMO.

But, and it was stated earlier, this is a country of choices and I too like choices. Some people choose to listen to Rap (so called) music, and I would fight for their right to do so. But, I still think they are stupid.
Some people are trying to make a muzzle loaderbecome more and more like my bolt action .270. Why? Are they trying to impress somebody? They don't impress me, I'll just go grab my .270, and remind them that their (centerfire wannabe) aint one, and then I'll pull out the old sidelock and show them thattheir (boring out of place in practical firearm history) gunperforms closer to my Hawken then it does to the Weatherby.

I guess the sport of muzzleloadingis a very complex topic.

C. Davis
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:56 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

ORIGINAL: BS

Randy, please just answer yes or no,....are you getting paid to participate on these forums?
No. It is no one's business, I certainly don't ask others what they do to earn a living-- but the answer is no.

I also don't get paid to answer 200 tech support e-mails and phone calls a day on a variety of muzzleloaders. Good idea, though.[&:]
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Old 07-15-2005, 10:18 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

ORIGINAL: C. Davis

Some people are trying to make a muzzle loaderbecome more and more like my bolt action .270. Why? Are they trying to impress somebody. They don't impress me, I'll just go grab my .270, and remind them that their (centerfire wannabe) aint one, and then I'll pull out the old sidelock and show them thattheir (boring out of place in practical firearm history) gunperforms closer to my Hawken then it does to the Weatherby.
You just picked my favorite rifle caliber. Shotgun, pistol, rifle, air rifle-- if it does what I want it to do, I tend to like it.

No muzzleloader is in the same league with a .270, and they won't be-- no load from the muzzle sabot can tolerate the velocity or rate of twist necessary tostabilize the bullet. Not even close, polyethylene has finite limits.

Choices isall they are, and I enjoy variety. There is obvious interest in smokeless muzzleloading, or there would be no activity on this thread. That clearlyis, shows that there is.
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Old 07-15-2005, 06:05 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: About Smokeless Muzzleloading

This to me would indicate that although Doc White, being a pioneer somewhat himself in the field of muzzleloading rifles still thinks muzzleloading rifles are a fantastic way to hunt anywhere for anything. I could not agree more with the doctor. From his statements concerning smokeless powder he indicates to me, that he is not convinced it is safe for the average hunter (such as myself). or general use in the field. Also in his conclusion, although he applauds the way smokeless powder performed in Africa, he seems to express that it made him very nervous to be hunting with smokeless powder. Or perhaps I am misreading his comments from his site. And as I said before, I never read his book.

So if a black powder expert such as Doc White still gets nervous by the use of smokeless powder and also does not endorse the use of it for the average hunter yet. I will stick with the conventional methods shooting Goex or Pyrodex P, even Triple Se7en with it's sometimes nasty crud ring.. and leave the smokeless powder shooting to the experts.

As long as you are reading Doc's site, you might as well read all of it:

http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/pr02.htm


PS- By the way, if you are shooting modest loads of smokeless in your T-Bolt ( it seems to be fairly common), the weak 209 primer rule is not necessarily true. Some smokeless powders are very hard to ignite and need all the power they can get. The high bulk slow burning powders are worst in this regard. I have tried some Accurate Arms 8700, a slow burning ball powder, and it needs a regular trap and skeet primer. Like pellets, it also needs the back pressure that only a tighter fitting sabot can provide. It appears that as long as you stick to less than 1500 fps velocities with my big bullets, and use medium burning powders, adjusting the breechplug so the rim of the 209 is tightly pinched by the bolt to minimize blowback, you will enjoy residue free shooting. The Accurate arms manual has some excellent information on obsolete large caliber loads that can serve as a guide. Just keep in mind that you will violate the guarantee on the rifle if you use smokeless. For the time being, the prohibition against using smokeless in White rifles remains in place (for liability reasons), so you are on your own.
Good Hunting
DOC
I'd not call Doc an "advocate," nor is he opposed either. He is a man with an inquisitive mind, and enjoys smokeless muzzleloading, inlines, sabots, conicals, and flinters. He advocates none; he embraces all.
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