What makes a Breechplug a Great BP?
01-08-2010 | 05:51 PM
#61
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: My Range in Central NY
Screwbolts
Would you give us the length of the flame channel from the bottom of the 209 seat to the vent liner please. Lee
Would you give us the length of the flame channel from the bottom of the 209 seat to the vent liner please. Lee
01-08-2010 | 05:54 PM
#62
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,976
Likes: 0
From: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
If anyone else has some BreechPlug Modifications (befor and after) Pics and results , or just results Im sure we'd all like to hear about them. Also pictures would be better than thumbnails.
(BP)
(BP)
01-08-2010 | 05:57 PM
#63
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: My Range in Central NY
Here are some drawings that are by Edge from the green Board,
Stock Plug not recessed,
This is a recessed plug,
Here is a couple of real deal plugs the SS one has a Long life carbide bushing vent liner in it, this is another hole topic. both are recessed.
Stock Plug not recessed,
This is a recessed plug,
Here is a couple of real deal plugs the SS one has a Long life carbide bushing vent liner in it, this is another hole topic. both are recessed.
Last edited by Screwbolts; 01-08-2010 at 06:02 PM.
01-08-2010 | 07:21 PM
#64
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
This drawing is a major over simplfication of what I think I am trying to explain. It non-scientific and developed between conversations with Spitpatch, Grouse, and some readings from Busta posts. Lehigh Dave was also involved to a certain point as he is currently or has currently rebuilt the Knight DISC breech plug with some of these aspect in mind. He truly is scientific and can explain the reasoning better than I can ever understand.
This drawing is an attempt to explain the thoughts behind increasing the size the 'flash channel' increases the volume of blow back the channel can hold after ignition of the powder and after the burn out of the primer... This is the period of time that pressure created in the bore is looking for anyway it can find to get out... The 'flash hole' and the 'Flash channel' offer the first place for this pressure to seek relief.
This is also drawn with out the addition of a vent liner - that would come after the original 'flash hole' is burnt out. And since we are using hooter and hotter primers and hotter loads of BH - the flash is going to wear faster.
Pardon the drawing - I am a complete novice at it....
This drawing is an attempt to explain the thoughts behind increasing the size the 'flash channel' increases the volume of blow back the channel can hold after ignition of the powder and after the burn out of the primer... This is the period of time that pressure created in the bore is looking for anyway it can find to get out... The 'flash hole' and the 'Flash channel' offer the first place for this pressure to seek relief.
This is also drawn with out the addition of a vent liner - that would come after the original 'flash hole' is burnt out. And since we are using hooter and hotter primers and hotter loads of BH - the flash is going to wear faster.
Pardon the drawing - I am a complete novice at it....
Last edited by sabotloader; 01-08-2010 at 07:24 PM.
01-09-2010 | 04:12 AM
#66
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: My Range in Central NY
Sabotloader has done an excellent job of explaining and drawing.
I have actually gone to the next step beyond his Modifications, I believe you should start with his mods and then let it evolve from there. I hunt/shoot even in extreme cold temps. It was -4F here one day during our late ML season. I had no fear that BH209 would light in my T-Bolt. The gun was being carried by a 16 yr old family friend that got so excited when we put deer right past him several time less than 10 yards, he couldn't move. Life and excitement is great :-)
My plugs are done/modified to ignite BH209 in my customized Knight T-Bolt and even harder to light powders in My Rolling Block ML.
I look forward to seeing Lehigh Dave's design, It will probably fit my T-Bolt.
Make lots of noise :-)
I have actually gone to the next step beyond his Modifications, I believe you should start with his mods and then let it evolve from there. I hunt/shoot even in extreme cold temps. It was -4F here one day during our late ML season. I had no fear that BH209 would light in my T-Bolt. The gun was being carried by a 16 yr old family friend that got so excited when we put deer right past him several time less than 10 yards, he couldn't move. Life and excitement is great :-)
My plugs are done/modified to ignite BH209 in my customized Knight T-Bolt and even harder to light powders in My Rolling Block ML.
I look forward to seeing Lehigh Dave's design, It will probably fit my T-Bolt.
Make lots of noise :-)
01-09-2010 | 07:10 AM
#67
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
U-all
Lee and I have exchanged a couple of emails and in his last one he has made an interesting point about the 'flash channel'. His concern or thought starts with the ignition of the the primer. With that ignition (explosion) his attention is directed to the 'flash channel' size also. I know in the back of my mind that you could probably 'OPEN' the channel 'TO MUCH' but really was not thinking what his thoughts have suggested - the idea you might open it 'TO MUCH'. His concerns were directed at the efficiency of the primer and it's ability to ignite the powder. As I read and think about his words - This gives more thought to some extent, it may not be the size of the 'flash hole' that gives us the abilty to ignite powder, although it is 'KEY' in the amount 'blow back' pressure that is placed on the primer and the face of the primer block or bolt which ever you have.
Here is part of his explanation - to me his discussion concerns it self with the ability of the primer to do it's job.... From Lemoyne - I am really hoping it is ok to use part of words - because it did start another train of though in my mind...
My drawing and my thoughts were on the other end of the spectrum - after ignition.
Lee and I have exchanged a couple of emails and in his last one he has made an interesting point about the 'flash channel'. His concern or thought starts with the ignition of the the primer. With that ignition (explosion) his attention is directed to the 'flash channel' size also. I know in the back of my mind that you could probably 'OPEN' the channel 'TO MUCH' but really was not thinking what his thoughts have suggested - the idea you might open it 'TO MUCH'. His concerns were directed at the efficiency of the primer and it's ability to ignite the powder. As I read and think about his words - This gives more thought to some extent, it may not be the size of the 'flash hole' that gives us the abilty to ignite powder, although it is 'KEY' in the amount 'blow back' pressure that is placed on the primer and the face of the primer block or bolt which ever you have.
Here is part of his explanation - to me his discussion concerns it self with the ability of the primer to do it's job.... From Lemoyne - I am really hoping it is ok to use part of words - because it did start another train of though in my mind...
As I understand it every explosive [which would include priners] has
several characteristics the FPS that it propagates at the force lines of the explosion and the flame temperature. If the force lines of the explosion are properly directed they will carry the pressure and the flame temperature into the powder.
This is not one of my areas of expertise so I am only giving you an
opinion, I am not even sure what type or class of explosive a shot gun
primer falls into. so here is an other opinion, by opening the flame
channel as you suggested we open the confinement allowing the explosive to
burn cleaner and possibly hotter which may help ignition the Lehigh does a
better job of focusing the result into the powder which ends up giving us
better cleaner ignition.
several characteristics the FPS that it propagates at the force lines of the explosion and the flame temperature. If the force lines of the explosion are properly directed they will carry the pressure and the flame temperature into the powder.
This is not one of my areas of expertise so I am only giving you an
opinion, I am not even sure what type or class of explosive a shot gun
primer falls into. so here is an other opinion, by opening the flame
channel as you suggested we open the confinement allowing the explosive to
burn cleaner and possibly hotter which may help ignition the Lehigh does a
better job of focusing the result into the powder which ends up giving us
better cleaner ignition.
Last edited by sabotloader; 01-09-2010 at 07:13 AM.
01-09-2010 | 12:22 PM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
Drilled out my Accura plug this morning. I forgot to fire it yesterday, before i came home, so i went up into the hills a little ways, and fired it this morning. It was a hang fire, and that surprised me. When i went to measure drill depth, i discovered that i have been short drilling the carbon with the 7/64 drill, leaving some carbon in the flash channel. This may the cause for the hang fire this morning.
Anyway, i carefully studied the depth to drill the 5/32 hole, and drilled out the flash channel. Then i used a 3/8" drill and deepened the concavity on the muzzle end of the breech plug just a little bit. This work left a flash hole about 1/8" long. It surprised me how easy the breech plug was to drill. I used oil for lube and both drills cut the steel readily.
Figured i should test the rifle, so i headed for the hills, set up the target, parked the truck in the same place as usual, and fired away. The rifle didn't seem to be as accurate as it was with the unaltered bp, but perhaps it was me. After 8 shots i moved the rear sight some and shot 3 more times. These last three shots made a 2 1/2" group at around 100yd. The altered breech plug changed the point of impact some, but i noticed no change in blow back or spent primer removal. There were no hang fires with the altered breech plug. The rifle fired right now.
When the vent liners i ordered arrive, i will install one and go from there. My goal was and is to make more of a concavity on the end of the breech plug. This can't be done without the vent liner.
Anyway, i carefully studied the depth to drill the 5/32 hole, and drilled out the flash channel. Then i used a 3/8" drill and deepened the concavity on the muzzle end of the breech plug just a little bit. This work left a flash hole about 1/8" long. It surprised me how easy the breech plug was to drill. I used oil for lube and both drills cut the steel readily.
Figured i should test the rifle, so i headed for the hills, set up the target, parked the truck in the same place as usual, and fired away. The rifle didn't seem to be as accurate as it was with the unaltered bp, but perhaps it was me. After 8 shots i moved the rear sight some and shot 3 more times. These last three shots made a 2 1/2" group at around 100yd. The altered breech plug changed the point of impact some, but i noticed no change in blow back or spent primer removal. There were no hang fires with the altered breech plug. The rifle fired right now.
When the vent liners i ordered arrive, i will install one and go from there. My goal was and is to make more of a concavity on the end of the breech plug. This can't be done without the vent liner.
01-09-2010 | 03:55 PM
#69
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,976
Likes: 0
From: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Drilled out my Accura plug this morning. I forgot to fire it yesterday, before i came home, so i went up into the hills a little ways, and fired it this morning. It was a hang fire, and that surprised me. When i went to measure drill depth, i discovered that i have been short drilling the carbon with the 7/64 drill, leaving some carbon in the flash channel. This may the cause for the hang fire this morning.
Anyway, i carefully studied the depth to drill the 5/32 hole, and drilled out the flash channel. Then i used a 3/8" drill and deepened the concavity on the muzzle end of the breech plug just a little bit. This work left a flash hole about 1/8" long. It surprised me how easy the breech plug was to drill. I used oil for lube and both drills cut the steel readily.
Figured i should test the rifle, so i headed for the hills, set up the target, parked the truck in the same place as usual, and fired away. The rifle didn't seem to be as accurate as it was with the unaltered bp, but perhaps it was me. After 8 shots i moved the rear sight some and shot 3 more times. These last three shots made a 2 1/2" group at around 100yd. The altered breech plug changed the point of impact some, but i noticed no change in blow back or spent primer removal. There were no hang fires with the altered breech plug. The rifle fired right now.
When the vent liners i ordered arrive, i will install one and go from there. My goal was and is to make more of a concavity on the end of the breech plug. This can't be done without the vent liner.
Anyway, i carefully studied the depth to drill the 5/32 hole, and drilled out the flash channel. Then i used a 3/8" drill and deepened the concavity on the muzzle end of the breech plug just a little bit. This work left a flash hole about 1/8" long. It surprised me how easy the breech plug was to drill. I used oil for lube and both drills cut the steel readily.
Figured i should test the rifle, so i headed for the hills, set up the target, parked the truck in the same place as usual, and fired away. The rifle didn't seem to be as accurate as it was with the unaltered bp, but perhaps it was me. After 8 shots i moved the rear sight some and shot 3 more times. These last three shots made a 2 1/2" group at around 100yd. The altered breech plug changed the point of impact some, but i noticed no change in blow back or spent primer removal. There were no hang fires with the altered breech plug. The rifle fired right now.
When the vent liners i ordered arrive, i will install one and go from there. My goal was and is to make more of a concavity on the end of the breech plug. This can't be done without the vent liner.
I did'nt get My (Spare) BP drilled out today as I had to cut some Fire Wood, it's COLD here! Let us know what further results you come up with.
(BP)
01-09-2010 | 04:05 PM
#70
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
Breechplug
It was below zero here last night and at day break, but by the time i made it out to shoot it was already over freezing. Supposed to be in the forties this next week, so weather will change here.
The load was 105g BH209, Harvester smooth sabot, 44 caliber 300g xtp, and Winchester shot gun primer.
Will shoot paper once, and then go hunting some more this next week. Won't be cold this next week, but will still be putting the modified breech plug to the test whilst hunting.
It was below zero here last night and at day break, but by the time i made it out to shoot it was already over freezing. Supposed to be in the forties this next week, so weather will change here.
The load was 105g BH209, Harvester smooth sabot, 44 caliber 300g xtp, and Winchester shot gun primer.
Will shoot paper once, and then go hunting some more this next week. Won't be cold this next week, but will still be putting the modified breech plug to the test whilst hunting.