RE: tell me the difference.......
 

too all who say an atv puts alot of polutions into the air! one ? for u do u ride your horse to the mtns? or do u drive? thats what i thought! so to use it polutes the air come on give me a break!;)

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

For me a horse would be useless in Saskatchewan, seeing where I often use my quad I need to duck down and then often get twacked by limbs. We don't have mountains in my province so i use my ATV in the forest/fringe areas. I distance my self from the logging road hunters when in the forest as well, instead of staying on the semi road allowances I go deep into the forest looking for lakes/swaps/natural meadows to find my quarry by ways of topo maps and scouting. Once I locate such areas I leave my ATV at distance and use my boot soles to get into my preferred location. So once again my ATV is not for ripping up the country side but rather a mode to allow me to get off the beaten path and transport stuff to the location. In many cases where we set up camp is miles from our trucks and trailers, so hoofing all the gear required to deal with moose would not allow us to distance ourselves from the majority of bush hunters like we do.

Shatodavis, as to the guides wanting you to harvest smaller animals for less work involved, not sure where you have hunted but being I guided for a number of years in my case nothing was further from the truth. I was not only judged on my reports for service but also the quality in which was harvested, my outfitter's would much rather see lower success rates with high scoring animals than vice versa. Personally if I was going on a guided hunt as a client this is also what I would expect, in most cases where the trophy is a big part of the goal your expectation must be met in work ethic but equally must be realistic in harvest..not every hunter will drop a B&C Animal that is a fact! Guys with topo maps I can also say nothing pee'd more than a new client trying to tell me where he should be set up. I am paid to know where to go, I had back ground area knowledge and spend countless hours before his arrival scouting the woods/locations. I would say humor me, this is what I am paid to do and it is in my best interest to put you on a good animal...it may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow or it may not even happen all week but rest assured I will do everything in my power to make you go home satisfied! Never once did I not get a positive review. To those who were vets to hunting sask. and/or the area sure I would take suggestions, quite frankly when things aren't going right out of the box thinking is required and welcomed.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I re-read my post that you are commenting on. I made it sound way worse than it actually is. I don't go in with a chip on my shoulder. I don't tell the guides their business. But, I do go in informed and if I think that things are a little fishy I tell them what I think. I'm not politically correct. If I think someone is full of carp, I tell them so. If I think someone is a Jacka$$ I tell them they're a Jacka$$. I don't beat around the bush. It definately rubs some wrong.

Skeeter don't take offense. But, If you get pee'd off if someone brings a topo then I don't want to hunt with you. Maybe, You don't do things the way I described but I assure you that other have and do. I once had a guide tell me that we couldn't go after a certain elk that we had spotted because in his words: "we might blow them off the mountain and not see them again." It would have been a tough stalk but it was do-able. Well, it was my last day of the hunt so what that told me was that he wanted to leave them for the hunters that where coming in behind me. He had been upset with me all week because I had passed on a rag horn. We had hunted where he had wanted to in the beginning.. It was an easy area, he could have got a truck to within a couple hundred yards of the carcass. I had asked a few times about an area I found on the map. I knew it was in his area. He was reluctant to go. He didn't want to hunt the area because he had more clients coming in.

I also had a guide get lost on the mountain. He was certain that we needed to go straight down a drainage. I told him that it led to a vertical drop that we couldn't navigate. I said that we need to crest a ridge and go down the other side. He, like you, said: "I'm paid to know this mountain" Well at dark we came to the vertical drop. We spent the night there. The next morning we went the way I wanted to go the evening before. I'm not complaining, it happens. I'm just pointing out that even guides are fallable.

I'm upfront with my outfitters when I book. I explain to them that I look at the guide as a hunting partner. We discuss our strategies, we discuss our routes, and we decide whats the best course of action. Sometimes we disagree. I say that it is no one else's responsibility to take care of me but me. Some get that stuck in their craw. They want to be in charge. They want to point and have me follow. Well, thats not me and I don't work that way. I don't book with those guys. I have experience too, I'm no Dude ranch hunter. If an outfitter is too wrapped up in himself to listen then I find another. Most times by about day two the quide realizes that I'm no city slicker and we end up being good friends. But, some get rubbed wrong from the beginning and never like me.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

shatodavis, I realized my response was pretty wishywashy - unclear as well. I agree it is imperative for you"hunter" to reserach and get as much information/education on what your hunt will encompass. However for someone who's only actual area knowledge is coming from a 10 year old topo map, I don't feel they have any right to instruct the guy who has been tromping the area and finding how it now relates to the game his clients are chasing. If he is experienced his opinion is of worth but often with changing conditions it may not be entirely accurate. In most cases guys just wanted to know where they were hunting, back up plans, how other have faired and other particulars. I was simply saying having someone come in trying dictate the hunt is frustrating from the other side when we bust our tails to ensure we can answer his question after sight in takes place. I personally felt that it was in my best interest to put forth the same effort for each client to make their hunt pleasurable, rewarding and successful. This included being frank and realistic, I expected the same in return from my hunters as well.

As to you follow I lead, you also must realize the gamit of hunters a guide faces in a given year, their can be a stark difference week to week. I would approach unless I previously guided them in the same manner, until I got a feel for what they were like personally. I certainly am not the type to command over others, I have no problem with authority either giving it or taking it but I also don't expect to be treated like someone lower just b/c I am working for you! Mutual respect, we are all in the same fratenity, just from different landscapes.

I know their are many guides that do not put forth the same effort and also tip chaser guides as well, knowing a hot hand is coming will hold out on the big lay down. I never was one though treated everyone equal you had just as much right as the next guy in my books, is all I was saying. Unfortunately due to the tip being a big part of the wage for a guide some do look ahead vs whats in their hand, I found out/learned early on in life don't ever judge a book by it's cover!

To bad about some of your experiences and I am sure you realize not all are equal in any business.

BTW no offense was taken, just trading thoughts/experience. I see no harm in debating and discussions with fellow sportsman. No worry about ever having me as a your "Full of myself" guide as I am no longer in the biz. Why, I have a family and couldn't give them what they wanted/needed being a guide. For the work it is horrible money and a hard life, the only thing I truly miss is the hunters (well 98% of them).:D

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

To put it simply, animals are part of nature, that includes horses and us. That is why we hunt, to be part of that, not to bring as many mechanical contraptions as possible w/ us to help us CONQUER nature. I do use ATV's, but where the road stops, so do I except to retrieve game AFTER the hunt.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

nvmike, after you kill your game you drive your atv in when there isnt even a road?????????????????


hope im misreading this
brad

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

nvmike, i sure hope u don't go around the gates to get game out! how is another hunter to know that u went for game? come on do a little work for a change!;)

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Manboy. Who appointed you dictator of hunting? Why don't you live up to the standards you set for yourself and let other hunters do the same? What the "H" is your problem?

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Girlyboy,uuhhh I mean manboy -where I hunt there are no gates to go around.
huntnmulies - yes, Bill Clintons B.S. roadless crap can kiss my $@!%&* wilderness is off limits though.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

so little mike johnson= let me get this straight, u tell one guy do not try a drop camp until u have years of practice cutting, and 1/4 an elk. but then u drive your atv down to the elk across the hills![:@]not even caring that u are hurting the rights to use an atv to hunt with?[:-] so if u like to hunt and drive your atv where ever u like, just remember u are the 1% we all talk about![:'(] just get off the lazy butt and move the animal to you!

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

nvmike.......

dont guess ive ever hunted anywhere that was legal. man, hauling one out on your back isnt easy, but it isnt impossible either. one thing ive found with it is it is rewarding. maybe you should try it

brad

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

manboy - I think you need to know the laws in other states before you go babbling off on how other people hunt!!! There is not sarcasm there, I am speaking seriously.

In Nevada, there are no laws regarding the use of ATV's, except in obvious areas such as Wilderness Areas and WSA's.

As I stated before, I do not use ATV's. I don't use horses either. I would probably use a horse before an ATV if I had the opportunity, and all other things being equal.

HOWEVER - it is legal to use an ATV to retrieve game. I see no problem with it. The problem I see is when people abuse the use of ATV's and just tear stuff up because the are total (words that are not appropriate in this forum).

And yes, that would be good advice for someone to wait until they could get some other form of experience under their belt before embarking on a drop off hunt. He said the experience of quartering and cutting elk, not necessarily doing it in the field.

Grow up and quit trying to start an argument out of every word someone types!

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

tell me how someone knows that he went to retrieve game! not to just ride all over the country!

hunting is a privledge!:eek:


some people need to be reminded of this once and a while!;)

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I have hunted off of horseback many times and, I assure you,
you aren't sitting on your lazy ass. In fact, I challenge anyone to come to West Texas Mt. Lion hunting horseback and tell me that you are sitting on your lazy ass.
No ATV in the history of ATV's will go where a good horse or mule will go in terrain that rough.
4-wheelers are one of the worst things that have happened to hunting.
Everyone thinks they have to have one in order to be successful. It simply isn't true. Everytime Polaris or some other company comes out with a new product it is touted as the latest and greatest thing that every hunter must own. Stop believing the hype. A horse doesnt scare game away and leave ruts all over a land owners pasture.
As the old timer in Jerimiah Johnson said, "Elk don't know how many feet a horse have".

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

manboy-you use my name like you know me? Makes me wonder. Anyways, you need to take a look at the Jarbidge wilderness sometime before you spout off. The only thing in your neck of the woods I think is similar is the needles area. Near verticle , very rocky terrain nasty.Two years ago I packed 4 elk out to the border on my back and I most of my animals do get packed on my back, but once we're at a location where I can get my scooter to I'm gonna use it.
As to adviseing another guy on going on a do it yourself hunt. the guy didnt even know if you needed a pack to haul an elk out.[8D] he obviously knew NOTHING about elk and was fixing to get in over his head. I told him no offense but try it with some help once or twice to learn (I did NOT say that he had to have YEARS of experience[&:]),then knock yourself out. ;)

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I'll admit I haven't read every post in this thread but this subject always gives me a chuckle and I'll tell you why.

My second favorite hobby is ATVing. But I don't even take my ATV on the hunt, or it gets very limited used when I do take it. I have found that getting into elk consistantly takes place at least a mile from the nearest road. People get angry about ATV's spooking elk. They do spook elk. But I don't think relying on a trail nearby being free of ATV's on opening weekend is a good plan, at least if you want to get into elk consistantly. You've got to get away from the roads. So to me ATV's aren't a big issue. I just hate seeing irresponsible riders tear up the mountainside. But I can honestly say I've never had an ATV rider ruin my hunt because I'm too far away from any trails to worry about it.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Ditto what rather_be_huntin posted.I really dont worry about guys who hunt off ATV's because the deer are already wise to them. I've watched groups of deer feed, suddenly look at something I cant see or hear, then lay down to hide. And what do you know....a couple min later here comes that ATV,Pick-up,motorbike,ect... not long after the vehicle goes away the deer come right back out and feed again. Mulies have nerves of steel is all I can say. Around here (and everywhere else I've been for that matter)the elk tend to stay away from the roads as soon as the shooting starts

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

That is a very good point regarding animals being wise to ATV's. Last year I was sitting on this hill watching a couple of draws and a spring. There was a small two track road, but I had seen deer on it the day before so figure what the hay. Then these deer came running down this draw. I could hear nothing and see no reason why the deer spooked like that. Then a couple of minutes later, these two guys on ATV's came right down that draw and got to that little two track before they even saw the deer. Then they stopped and looked for maybe a few seconds and then took off again and went UP the other draw I was watching, which is where I saw the deer the morning before!! I was not sitting out in the middle of the open, but I was not exactly playing hide and seek either. They never even noticed that I was there!! Kinda made me laugh. Good thing there was nothing in that group that I could shoot, but it still torked my cookies a little bit.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I agree. Though I want to convey a experience I had. We had been hunting hard for 6 days. My buddy had killed a nice Muley and a nice 5 point bull. I had scored on a 5 point muley but had struck out on elk. We are leaving when I or my buddy (can't remember) saw brown. We're on the road in our truck. We pull over and glass them. We were hoping a bull would be there. It would have been a perfect last minute hail mary stalk. As we are glassing I notice a 4 Wheeler moving up the slope. My buddy saw another. These two einsteins where flanking the elk with 4 wheelers. We watched it unfold. They both rode at the elk from opposite sides. when the elk saw the one on the right they took off to the left. They ran right over the top of the other guy. It sounded like a war for a few moments. As best I could tell nothing was hit by the barrage though. If it wasn't so sad it would have been comical.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

that is truly pathetic.
to me elk hunting isnt about killing elk, its about experiencing elk. a lot of my favorite elk hunts, i didnt evey draw my bow, but i was in the herd for long periods of time. there is just so much to see and hear in the elk woods.

man i wish september would get here
brad

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

September 9th all will be right with my world. Yellow gold of the aspens and bugling elk. It truely is God's country.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Shato - your 4 wheeler story makes me sick, north of elko a few years back we watched some guys line up on both sides of a canyon, then send two scooters down the middle like wildmen to jump the deer out. [:@]They didnt spook any deer because we had walked that canyon about two hours earlier and pushed some does and a couple little bucks out already:D. I turned em into the game warden and even lead the warden to the camp then proceeded to ID the four wheelers and four of the hunters, three had changed clothes so we couldnt say for sure they were the same ones. Dont know what the final outcome was though, they left that night. Another time we watched two four wheeler drive INTO a wilderness area and shoot elk off their scooters. The elk dove off into a canyon and the guys went after em on foot. when they came back their engines had new breather holes in the blocks thanks to my 300win. we called the Game&fish , the guys got their elk, four wheeler and themselves out before mid morning the next day when the wardens finally showed up.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

You guys dont like ATV's? LOL, then you would really hate the thing that I ride around in.....................

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

So whem the wardens showed up the hunters in question should have been charged under the wildlife act and fined accordingly for their behavior.Then the police should have been called so they could charge you for your behavior.I am sure that the fines and restitution that a judge would have assessed you would have used up some of your future hunting budget.You are very lucky that your actions did not result in retaliation to your property or even worse.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

TXhighrack, show us what you ride around in. :D:D:D:D:D

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I was waiting for somebody to ask :D

Mine is not exactly like this one, mine is on a black Z71 and is not a top drive like this one. And mine also has the ladder on the back.



Here are some others for your enjoyment (and/or humor)

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

And some more, just in case you guys in PA need some ideas for your truck :D

My favorite





The "top drive" system allows you to steer and drive from your seat on top of the cab.



waiting in the brush for that big 160" monarch..

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I love posting these photos for guys outside of south Texas, their first words are normally "What in the.....hell....is that"

This one should get the job done, you should also grab some attention



And no top drive/high rack is complete with out custom leather chairs, you aint hunting unless your riding on 100% cow hide ;)



Hope ya'll enjoyed :D

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

TXhighracks - I dont hate ATV's, but they are a vehicle and are NOT legal to hunt from to begin with. Even so...I dont begrudge a guy the occasional shot from one if hes on a two track and something presents itself, but when guys start brush busting w/ em to hunt? Give me a break. I was wondering, do you guys hunt while on the move in those contraptions or are they basically "stands on wheels" where you park and wait.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

NVmike:

I totally understand where you are coming from. I think atvs along with trucks should be kept out of certain areas on public land. And I dont agree with people using there atvs to chase and/or run down a game animal.

There basically "stands on wheels". The ranches down here are generally large in size so the hunter should be very mobile in order to take full advantage of the land he is hunting. Alot of guys might hunt one spot in the morning and might be hunting a different spot several miles away but still on the same ranch in the evening. And also the land down here is pretty flat for the most part and the brush is thick but short in height, so if your able to get up a few feet higher then your able to see for miles. But honestly alot of guys have these high rack trucks for entertainment reasons more so then for hunting reasons, although most are used for both (myself included).

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Great trucks, the wardens would have a hay day with me if I owned one of those here in IL you should'nt of showed them here I have a feeling your going to get some negative respone for some narrow minded people (manboy):D

But realy those trucks arre neat. Do you do the work to them?

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Thats alright, people like manboy arent even worth listening to. Besides I'm not embarrased by my methods of hunting, I dont think anybody should be as long as it is within the law.


Thanks, I wish I owned an entire fleet of them :D No I dont do any of the work, I'm not much of a welder and I would probably shock myself if I touched any of the electric wires. But there are alot of shops across Texas that will custom build one for you. The sky is the limit when it comes to designs and layouts, I've seen some that have even made me laugh at the "creativity" of the owners. The only down side is the cost, they range anywhere from $500-$20,000+ and thats on top of the price of the truck that your using.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

wow what ethics...txhighrack...

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

man are those ugly trucks.....especially the chevys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here in wyoming, wed get laughed off the road or out of hunting camp, but hunting down there is a lot different. i just cant believe that a deer would stand within range of one of those things. just seems like they would be so obvious to me

brad

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Well I can see were the name TXhighrack came from. I don't see any differance between your stand and a treestand, except the driving. Quieter than an ATV also. I'm sure We'll here from treestand people, although I respect them becouse I just can't sit that long.

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I didn't see the jacuzzi nor the cocktail waitress, are you holdin' out on us poor mountian folks. [&:]

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

Slamfire, the cocktail waitresses are sitting in the cab of the truck, they only come out when we ring the bell or honk the horn. :D


It was either the jacuzzi or the poker table, and to tell you the truth I didnt want to sit in a jacuzzi with a couple of guys, so the poker table got chosen ... lol

RE: tell me the difference.......
 

I'm strictly a backpack hunter myself. Nothing gets my gander up like coming around a corner and hearing the "put put" of an approaching ATV. Horses I can deal with, but ATVs have no place in the woods.