TerryM

The .308 can be had in a shorter handier rifle. As for difference in performance on game, no difference. I have owned both and taken game up to Bull moose with no difference at all. Flip a coin.

apmaurosr

Sorry about the "flatter" statement. I'm not sure why that came out when I meant to say more accurate. Multi-tasking and age I suppose. FYI - to redeem myself I've pasted an article below from sniper country on accuracy. I've also corrected my posting and edited with my accuracy comment. BTW - I hunt with only 2 rifles a .308 and .375. My .308 has downed all of the No. American and African game I've hunted, some animals close to 1000 lbs. (not dangerous game). I'm not advocating which rifle is "better" since that is a matter of preference. I'm just providing information that might be helpful in making an informed decision.

Here's why I'd go with the .308. It'll effectively knock down any game in No. America with proper shot placement. It shoots more accurately than the 30-06 with less recoil too. Inexpensive military ammo is available for target shooting. Ammo is also carried by most stores so if your on a hunting trip and run out it should be easy to fnd.

Regards
Ant
www.anthonypmaurosr.com

Accuracy Facts
.308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield

By Bart Bobbitt
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Seems to me that any time there's more metal contacting the bullet, the greater [the] chance that more variables come into play. Besides, folks who shoot highpower rifles the most accurate[ly] have very little case neck tension on the bullet anyway.

It's really easier to have uniform case neck tension by having it light in the first place; neck length doesn't come into play when this is how it's done. And ammo that's been handloaded [which is] then let set for several weeks or months will have a greater release force needed with long necks because of dissimilar materials bonding between bullet jacket and case neck/fouling. There's more area to bond when longer necks are used.

All that aside, lets go back to when the .30-06 and .308 were the only cartridges allowed in NRA match rifle matches. Both cartridges were used in barrels of equal quality as well as the same action and stocks by several top shooters in the USA. Both cartridges were used in matches at ranges from 100 through 1000 yards. Many thousands of rounds were fired in both types. Bullets from 168 through 200 grains were used with several powder, case and primer combinations.

In comparing accuracy between the .308 and .30-06, folks who used each quickly agreed on one thing: .308s were two to three times more accurate than the .30-06. In the early 1960s, it was also observed that competitors with lower classifications using .308s were getting higher scores than higher classified folks using .30-06s; at all ranges. By the middle to late 1960s, all the top highpower shooters and virtually all the rest had switched to the .308. The Highpower Committee had received so many complaints of ties not being able to be broke between shooters using the .308 and shooting all their shots in the tie-breaking V-ring, something had to be done to resolve this issue. In 1966, the NRA cut in half the target scoring ring dimensions.

At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.

At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.

Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.

Military arsenals who produced match and service ammo in both 7.62mm and 30 caliber have fired thousands of test rounds/groups with both. They also found out that with both ammo types, the smallest groups were with the 7.62 by about 50 to 60 percent. M1 rifles in 7.62 shot about twice as small of groups as .30 M1s at all ranges. When the M14 was first used, there were some .30-06 M1 rifles that would shoot more accurately. It took the service teams several years to perfect the methods of making M14s shoot well, but when they did, they shot as good as M1s in 7.62.

There will always be folks who claim the .30-06 is a more accurate cartridge. All I have to say to them is to properly test .308 vs. .30-06 and find out. Theory is nice to think about; facts determine the truth.

KonaBoy

I'd go with the 30-06

2point

I agree with Apmaurosr that the 308 is more accurate in competitions and 1000yard shots, but we got to remember this guy is asks for a hunting rifle for coyotes, pronghorn, deer,elk bear, and varmints. If he is an average shhoter like myself he proabably wants his shots 300 yards or under. Just about any rifle can do that job. I bought my son a savage 30-06 that shoots remington corelocts under 1 MOA . I could have bougth him any other brand and it would do that or close enough for hunting. I own a 30-06 Mark 5 weatherby. Everybody thinks weatherbys are so inaccurate, it cloverleafs all types of factory bullets. Last year I got an antelope at 310 yards, whitetail buck at 80 yards, and a cow elk at 60 yards all one shot kills. Now saying that I could have done the same with a 308. So little bow man needs to decide what rife he wants and go for it. A 308 is ligther weight (do you pack in for hunts?) with the short bolt and less recoil (are you a new shooter?). A 30-06 gives you a little more horsepower. 2point

mybigredford

i give another vote for the 06, buy that one and it will all you ever need for anything.

Virginia7

Not a whole lot of difference between the two. Both will handle the game you noted.
Depends on what you want. If you like short action rifles then go with the 308Win.
If you prefer a standard length action, take the 30-06. The short action bolt rifle will
probably be about 1/4 to 1/2lb. lighter, too. No real practical difference in speed of
bolt operation.
308Win. is considered the more accurate of the two, but for big game hunting purposes this really makes no difference. However, with varmints being considered, I'd opt for
all the accuracy I could likely get, and go with the 308Win.
Recoil is slightly less with the 308Win. Of course, this depends too on the weight of the rifle, and stock design.
The 308Win. will generally come within about 100fps of velocity you can get with the
30-06. Nothing to worry about there.
If you anticipate the need for using 200gr. or heavier bullets, then you need the 30-06.
But, if you can get by with 180gr., and you should be fine for the game noted, then the
308Win. will do okay.
Both are available in a wide variety of make/models of rifles, and ammo is readily available most anywhere you go.

bigbulls

Just to let you all know, Little Bow Man 1 is my son.

We got him a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. We have yet to shoot it cause the range was closed on Sunday but we will be going again in a week or two.

Now he just has to save up for a good scope to top it off. Spring and Summer is coming and the grass grows real fast around here.

Jonathan K

apmaurosr, It seems that your article suggests that in the early days of the .308 that .308 rifles were more accurate than 30-06 rifles, not cartridges. Most hunters concerned about accuracy shoot bolt guns so the article is not very relevant. My 700 in 30-06 is a one hole'r at 100 yards using 200gr partitions, hard to beat that. Curiously and possibly to your point, I use a "minimum" handload with these bulllets which more closely matches the .308 in velocity (of course, 200gr is not a .308 loading). If there is any accuracy advantage to the .308 (I rather doubt it), it is probably a matter of short action vs. long action - short action bolt guns should have stiffer actions and this certainly aids accuracy providing that there isn't some other problem.

The .308 is a very efficient little cartridge, kind of like an early version of the "short magnums" that are popular now. Shorter action, easier to cycle, lighter by a few ounces, easier to carry ammo... Having said all of that, I just bought another '06 because I value the added versatility including the ability to use heavier bullets.

Six of one half dozen of the other - I suppose when all is said and done I would recommend the '06, now 99years old and going strong.

apmaurosr

Jonathan K

Thanks for your comments. Sometimes when posting it is tough to maintain the original message or statement as various posters focus in on one or two sentences and unintentionally the message gets distorted along the way.

My personal opinion is that the differences between the .308 and 30-06 are marginal and very difficult to show any clear cut advantage. That's why I mentioned lighter recoil, ammo availability and ammo cost as possible advantages in my original posting when I spoke of the .308. You'll notice none of these advantages has anything to do with the calibers ability to drop an animal. The 30-06 offers a better momentum value but I believe it translates into only several foot pounds. It really comes down to personal preference. I am not advocating one caliber over another. I am simply stating what I see are the benefits of a .308, and again they are at best marginal and perhaps insignificant depending on the hunter.

As for accuracy, I think the last paragraph of the article I posted sums it nicely. Hunters should test for themselves and come to their own conclusions. At shorter distances and in hunting applications I'd have to say that accuracy would be a marginal advantage for the .308, if there is any advantage at all.

I was hoping to see some empirical evidence from some other posts regarding the 2 calibers but there hasn't been any provided. Most of the posts here, when you boil them down, were simply stating a personal preference for one caliber over the other. I'm not surprised though, because I think the similarities bewteen the performance of the two calibers far outweigh the differences.

"There will always be folks who claim the .30-06 is a more accurate cartridge. All I have to say to them is to properly test .308 vs. .30-06 and find out. Theory is nice to think about; facts determine the truth."

Regards
Ant

apmaurosr

bigbulls and little bow man 1 -

Good hunting.

Ant