It is not the wolf that is the problem.

It IS the people that are managing them and their management methods. Or lack their of.

Just like the ranchers before us that killed them off if you do the same and keep killing them off there will always be some one or some group that will successfully loby to bring them back.

Humans and wolves can live together just fine if the humans quit being PC and manage them properly.

I agree with BigBulls. Wolves are just another predator but the management (which in this case is none at all) is the MAJOR problem here. I believe that wolves HAVE depleted elk herds and hunting opportunities in some areas. I believe this to be wrong. When it first started I was all for wolf re-introduction. The reasons why I was for it have not changed. But I had no idea the government was going to be this neglegiant in handling the re-intro process. This is one of the most rediculous management plans I have ever seen.

It's real sad too because I for one always believed man, and other wildlife could live with the wolf. I believe that had the re-intro been been conducted with much more intellegence many out there would have always seen we could live with the wolf and I think overall support would have eventually been won. But with the way it's been done from day one until now, those who were on the fence are almost all now against the whole thing.

In my opinion is was a good idea but HORRIBLE execution.

Ahhhhhhhhh, probably worth some passing commentary.....

A Line by Denzel Washington from "I, Robot", seems appropriate:
"Somehow the words, 'I told you so', just don't seem to cut it!"
(Just about the time they realized they were in "deep do-do")

IMHO, from the viewpoint of pragmatic hunters or stockmen, the USFW could not pour pee out a boot with the directions stamped on the heel.[:'(][:'(]

Fifteen years from now, when the damage has been mostly wrought, it will be interesting to see how the "polling numbers" on a hunting web site like this one will go:

Vote for your choice:
*** 15 more years of the same (BTW, 15 years from now you may not want to believe the newest line of gov't BS then either),
OR
*** Let's go back to "1993 status" and spend the next 15 years doing what our grand daddies did and "get this mess cleaned up."

BTW, assuming the USFW is going to do something "reasonable" by "hunter standards" is wishful thinking and naive. I might add that the USFW IS doing an absolutely wonderful job by greenie, treehugger, PETA standards.... kinda make you wonder who is going to "win" that one in the long pull. [][]

BTW, the courts just denied the proposed "delisting of the grey wolf" last week I believe, in a suit filed by guess who?

My, my, not like we couldn't see that one coming..... Looks like those clever wildlife biologists, PhD's, and their grad assistants with their "statistically sound science" are going to be putting in even more overtime before any de-listing gets done (maybe a 15 year running battle between the statistians?). In the mean time, what the heck happened to the elk herds? Oh, I forgot, I'm just a lay person --- no statistical study --- just like all the other lay folks, don't really know what we see.

Good luck with getting this genie back into the bottle!
=================

BTW, Alsatan, in RE to your Q: I don't know right where you're hunting and the current impact in that area, your odds may be fair for this year, but if you go then take lots of pictures (might want to hire a videographer) so you can show your kids "how it was back in the good old days."

EKM

I hate the wolves. From what I have seen recently the tide is starting to turn. The head of the wolf recovery program was interviewed in todays paper. I beleive that he has been on both sides of the fence, and has received threats of bodily harm from both as he states. It doesn't help the damage that has already done however there is a soon to be delisting of the wolves. When this happens control will turn over to the states. In my opinion it is like turning over a kid with crappy diapers to a baby sitter. The baby sitter starts with a mess on her hands. But if the babysitter is a good one, things get cleaned up pretty quick. If the wolves are going to be there then so be it. But I hope the state I live in can make speedy work of cleaning up the crap.

They are a problem, at least the three my son left behind at my place are. Whenever I try to go huntin' they come along. I am too slow to outrun them. If I do manage to shoot somethin', I am too feeble to take it from them. I don't hate 'em though, I thought they were kinda neat when they were pups.

I don't like hate! I like the word detest! Yes, I detest the feds, and the wolves. No good has came of what they have done.

Not so fast....it's still a little early to claim your victory on this. EKM you are an intellegent guy but throughout this whole process I've never seen you be able to "see" that there are two aspects of the wolf re-intro.

First you have the "is the wolf a super predator that kills and eats everything but the clouds in the sky debate?" This is where many of us disagree and probably will until 15 years has passed with sound managment and are left with the results.

The second is the political aspect of wolves. I, and many here included, have never agreed with how the government has handled them. If you go back and read old posts we are not saying anything now we didn't say then. When the wolf debate started. We predicted, very accurately mind you, that if wolf managment was not passed on to the states this would start happening. I still feel very strongly that we and other wildlife can coexist just fine with the wolf. But we and other wildlife cannot coexist with Federal wolf management policy. But the thing is....even those of us for wolf re-intro have been saying this all along.

So you are a lot premature to say, "I told you so."

And when you go and do this again. I will be right there to say I told you so.


So we can all get over this wolf thing. They will be here so you may as well get use to it and find a way to live with them. Talk to your represenatives, congressmen, etc... and tell tham that the wolf needs to be delisted and managed by the states division of wildlife. There needs to be a hunting season on wolves just like there are other game animals. As we humans take more and more land from wildlife the animals need to be managed better and better for the good of all of us.

So quit picking a fight with the wolves cause they are just an animal that is following its instincts and get on the asses of the people in charge of the management of them.


So quit whining about it and start up a group to fight PETA. PETA started from a small group and look at them now. They are the biggest and most well known animal rights group in the world.

Big and Rather,

Sorry guys but the "hopeful team" is down 21-0 just before the half! Whoops! The "bad guys" just completed a hail mary pass with their court victory (read Judicial Branch) and just blocked the Executive Branch from remedying anything by de-listing those cute, brave, noble critters for some time to come. If you are counting on the Legislative Branch where majority face re-election every 2 years to "be a man" and dive into this political ballywick, then "Uh Huh". 28-0 at the half.

Good luck during half time in regard to getting this "wolf control train back on the tracks" (was it EVER on the tracks post 1993?)

For those of you who were counting on the much rumored, often promised, soon-to-happen, transfer of power to the states and the delisting of the grey wolf, here is a recap of that last touch down before halftime:

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda only goes so far. It better be a damn good 3rd quarter as the "die" is nearly cast on the wolf thing.

I guess on the bright side it is a big world and not everywhere are they as "goody two shoes" to the point of excess about wildlife as they are here in the USA. We have wonderful personal and economic freedoms though, gotta love that part.... wildlife pragmatism vs. PC BS in the USA kinda bites a bit though.
Unfortuantely, I'm betting that hunting outside the USA is not an option for most folks.

Good Day,
EKM

This is a rancher, real life person, in a real world. About 55 miles from where I live. Her letter to the editor.

Meeteese wolves don't fear humans





Editor:

I would like to comment on something that Ed Bangs said during the most recent incidents with the wolves out of Meeteetse: "Any human activity will scare wolves off their prey; otherwise they would have eaten the whole horse."

I live and work on a ranch in this area where we have had seven confirmed wolf kills, and none of the animals were eaten. Two of the animals were killed in fields directly behind my house; all of the others were killed in mountainous pastures with no human activity. In one incident, the wolves killed four full-grown cattle in an area of 50 feet. Since no one is around the area to scare them off, please explain to me why they weren't eaten. If wolves are so scared of humans, how come they walk up to my husband while he is dragging meadows and stare at him, why do they come up to us 100 yards or less when we are calving, why do they come up to our yard fence and walk through the ranch when we are present, why did they have their pups directly above where the loggers are cutting?

I would also like to tell you that wolves don't kill only when they are hungry. Many times they will kill animals to show their young howl, yet they don't eat them. If you would like to see this slaughter, head to the nearest ranch. If you can't get out of your office to see this, then look back at the seminar that was put on in 1994 at the Meeteetse gymnasium. At that program were pictures of a considerable amount of deer in Canada that were slaughtered by wolves. None were eaten; the only thing eaten on some were the fetuses out of the pregnant doe.

I would also like to correct another comment that you used in an earlier article. This is in regards to the "Black Widow." You seem to think that if you kill her off that the other wolves will not know how to kill cattle/sheep. Wolves instinctively know how to kill and refine their skills by observing the older wolves. They don't decipher between an elk and a cow. It is food, mostly a sport, and it is killed in the exact same way. We have watched them kill elk and their young the same way that they have our cattle.

Maybe these words will help you to understand the animal instead of reading junk out of a book that is inaccurate.

KARLA GITLITZ, Meeteetse