I was going to post this in the Bow forum but I wanted elk hunters opinions. Anyway I have been trying to decide if I was going to make the switch to carbons this year or not? I have now made up my mind, and ElkNut/Paul its all your fault! I am not the type to buy a new bow each year or every other year. I believe a lot of archers are better off staying with one bow for a few years and just like with rifles the longer you practice and shoot it, the more familure it becomes. In a way it becaomes a part of you, like a extension of your body. The only exception to this might be the competiton shooters who shoot for hours a day at 5 or more days a week, I think they can pick up any bow and shoot it well. Anyway my Martin Fury bought new by me in January of 1997 is showing its age, its still in good condition, but its so unforgiving and noise compared to todays bows. I have been wanting a Mathews for a few years now, but just couldn't justify it yet. Well to make a long story shorter a new dealer who took over a local pro shop here was offered a one time special buy from Mathews for becoming a new dealer. It was limited to a dozen bows, to be offered to family and friends only. Now I do know this dealer and we are friends, but we are not buddy buddy if you get my drift. But being a Archery Education Instructior I sent business/new customers to this shop, as well as other shops in our area. So the new shop owner calls me up the week before christmas and tells me about this deal. He states that he can get me a new Switchback, selling it to me for $600. Now the bow normaly sells for $730 to $770 depending on where you go. I have called shops all around S.E. Idaho and north Utah and all were within this price range. I told him that was a awesome deal but I didn't have a extra $600 being the week before christmas and that I might have to pass unless he could do a layaway. He told me he could do that, and that the left Hand Switchbacks were not even out yet, and I could have longer than 90 days if needed. But the 90 day countdown wouldn't start until the bow came into the shop. He told me that all he did need was $100 in down payment before Christmas day, if I wanted it buy it or he would offer it other friends. I told him I would think about it/talk to my wife and get back to him the next day. I did talk to my wife and she said heck no, and that was the end of disscussion. Little did I know that the next day my wife went and put the $100 down on the bow for my Christmas gift. Wow talk about a good surprize on Christmas morning. The left hand bows still have not been shiped in yet, and I will be able to shoot it while its on layaway. In the meantime I have been dreaming about what rest, sight, arrows and such that I will use with this bow. And that brings us to why I posted this. In the past I have hated Carbons for use with elk hunting. I like a heavy arrow/broadhead combo for elk. Well with Paul saying that he has had good success with the gold tips on elk for some time that has got me realy thinking. Also I did hunt with a friend from out of state for two years and called in two bulls for him. He too was shooting gold tips arrows, and both bulls were big bodied animals a 4 point bull, and a 6 point bull. The penertration was excellent with both bulls and he was using Muzzy Broadheads. I myself have shot Thunderheads for years with XX75 2219's. I like the Thunderheads and Muzzys are great too, but I want to use a cut on contact with a lighter carbon arrow. I have been reading about the cut on contact, 4 blade Magnus Stinger. They claim of it being excellent with light weight Carbons, and being shot from fast bows with outstanding flight. And that its shoots like a field tip. I have been a skeptic of that, but now with Paul stating he is shooting/killing elk with Gold Tips and Stingers combo, I think that is what I would like to try. Paul what speeds are you shooting at? Elkcrazy8/Chad I want to know you honest opinion. I want to shoot this arrow at around 270 to 280 f/s. Do you think that the broadhead/arrow will plane at that speed? Anyone else what do you think? Thanks Jason.

With all the advancements in arrows and arrow flight carbons are way to go in my book.I'm no expert either.Just getting back into the sport I will be shooting Gold Tip Pro hunter XT arrows with 105 gr broadheads.

I won't worry any,I just have to pratice.

Thats the way to go. I shoot Black Hawk Camo Vapors 5000 with the 100gr Magnus Stingers but the two blade kind . Killed 1 elk 3 deer and a turkey with the same set up the elk was 40 yards shot threw the heart clean pass threw arrow stuck in a tree behind the elk granite it was a raghorn but he didnt go 30yards from where I shot him from.

Iam shooting a 2004 Scorpion PSE 70lbs Whiskerbiscit it shoots 277fps with a field piont . Ive owned alot of bows everything from A to Z and this bow with this setup is by far my favorite.

Oh yeah the only reason Im not using Gold tips is becuase I got a deal I couldnt pass up on the Vapors.If you change you will be more than happy.

Jason, I like to keep the speed at 270 fps or under. I used the Modoc's for a while and they tend to fly the best however the blood trails are a little week. If you use the cut on contact 2 blade I would suggest using one with a bleeder blade. I shot Muzzies last year and they worked fine at around 270 fps, but I had a great tune on the bow. I would make sure that if you go with the goldtips that they are spined correctly for your set-up. If I can remember correctly you had a longer draw length. I shot the LX last year and found that the carbon express terminators worked real well. The terminators are a little heavier than most. Not trying to sell you on another arrow or anything, I am just not too familiar with the gold tips and their sizes. You might want to do some home work on arrow weight to make sure that you get the perfect combination. With todays carbons there are a huge variety of types and sizes to choose from. Remember in our conversation that we spoke of pin point accuracy and confidence that carries over into hunting. I beleive that a slightly slower arrow that is more forgiving is better than speed any day.

Jason, I have looked at the switchback and did a little calculating. I feel that an arrow pushing closer to 500 grains will put you in the ballpark. You have a long drawlenghth and the switchback is quick. I was shooting 270 fps from my LX with a 514 grain arrow. That calculated to 83 ft lbs of kinetic energy. Way more than enough for elk and probably enough for griz. Put a cut to the tip broadhead on it and that elk will be like shooting through butter. The long draw length is definalty a plus when setting up an elk rig. Becuase of the higher energey, I went back to a 3 blade because penetration was not a factor for me, but an extra wound channel and good blood trail was.

Jason--Congrats on the new bow!! And my hats off to your awesome wife for not letting the cat out of the bag too early!~!~

I've heard plenty about the switchback, all good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You'll love it!!

Just remember, if you switch to carbons you'll never go back to aluminum. <grin>

I've used ACC's--Bemans-Carbonexpress- Gold tips, and one other I can't think of. They all performed just fine. I settled on Gold tips for the simple reason of ease of getting them!

The GT 5575 is about 9 grains per inch, if you shoot 30" arrows thats 270grns, then add 125grn? head and you're up to 395, then add aprox. 35 more grns for flethes, nock & insert. That takes you to 430grns. A 7595 GT which is 10 grns per inch would start you at 300grns and then add the rest and you're at 460grns. If you want more arrow wt. you can add wt. tubes, they come in 2 or 3 grain per inch and look like a straw & slide inside your arrows. With your length of arrows you could easily gain 56 or 84 more grains per arrow. Or you could use partial length wt tubes and adjust arrow wt to whatever total arrow wt you'd like!!

I personally feel you would be better matched with the heavier 7595 at whatever arrow wt you'd like to shoot. That being said I shoot 74lbs with 26-1/2 arrows for a total wt of around 425-430 grns. My son shoots a similar setup with muzzys. We both shoot through elk with no problem, depending on angles of course. I shoot a drop-away NAP rest this helps reduce the length of my arrows even though I
have a 28" draw length.

My bow shoots around 240fps -- my sons is closer to 260fps, he can shoot my stingers in 4-blade 125grn with no problem of planing at all. I'm sure you would see the same results with either the muzzy or Magnus Stinger, I personally believe the Stinger is the better head after having used both.------------Good Luck--- If you want to try a couple Stingers in 4-blade 125 give me a holler, I've got some you can have, no need to spend money on something you're unsure of. I also have plenty of Muzzys 125 3- blade I'd be happy to send you to try out if you'd like!! Let me know Jason!!!------->Paul

Chad and Paul thank you both for your input. Chad I too was thinking that somewhere around 500 grs. would do the trick. I looked at Gold Tips web site and the 7595 GT will have the correct spine for my draw length and poundage. I want to shoot a drop away rest, my local pro shop carries one called the Rip Cord. It seem to be good and dependable, but I will shoot it first before I give it a final verdict and judgment. BTW I have never used a dropaway before so how do you tune a drop away rest? I also have located some Gold Tips 7595 Realtree Camo Hunters, they are full length, fletched and come with inserts. For 4 dozen at $200, delivered to my front door, their being shiped from a dealer back east in Iowa. My Mathews dealer doesn't carry Gold tips in his shop. A different local pro shop told me the GT real tree camo 7595 are disscontinued and they weigh at 9.2 grain/per/inch? And a thrid local pro-shop told me they (real tree camos)wern't discontinued but they do weigh less than the 7595 advantage camo's which are 9.7 gpi? I am buying the arrows either way because they are for sure 7595's and have the correct spine. I am going to call Gold Tip in Utah, to find out what they weight they are for sure, and I may want to refletch them with the NAP quick spins. I will ask GT their opinion about that too and instructions for stripping fletching off the arrow without damage. I like Pauls suggestion with using the weighted straws to get around 500 grains or so. Paul I would like to also take you up on your offer of trying the 4 blade Magnus Stinger, I'll call you and give you my address again over the phone, in case you have lost it. Also I'll make sure to charge my phone before so that way it won't die on us again. Thanks Jason.

Jason--The arrows I'm using now are called Gold Tips Hunter XT's 7595. I know they're more than enough spine for my setup, but I like a stiff arrow for better penetration. I'm considering bumping mine up to 500+grns as well, mostly to give snuffers a try. They usually take a little more weight to tune and shoot good.

The drop-away rest just gets out of the way of your arrow upon release, therefore giving you total flething clearance. That's the number one problem that guys face when tuning their equipment. You'll just have to set it up so when you draw it's in the up position, and when arrow is released it drops completely out of the way towards the shelf of your bow. I'm sure the shop you're picking up your bow & accessories from can help out so you can setup your rest correctly. It's really pretty easy to get in the ball park in the shop, then take it home and fine tune it properly.

Call anytime in the evenings, I'll look forward to it!!-------------------------Paul

Jason, I bare shaft tune at 20 yards. I make adjustments to the rest until the fletched come together with the unfletched. At that point I call it good. It usually takes me 20-30 minutes to tune my bow. I do this for both tournament and hunting bows. As for fall aways. I beleive they are second to none. I use the saying, the simpler the better. On the trophy taker there is only one spring on the rest and it is internal. Some of the fallaways have several moving parts. Ones with several moving parts have a greater chance at breaking down at the most innoportune time. I am not trying to sway you one way or the other, but you might want to keep this in mind. One thing you may also want to do is keep an eye on your FOC. A heavier broadhead might be needed on a heavier arrow. I like to keep the FOC at no less than 12% for hunting and around 8% for tournament shooting. Sounds like you are doing some good research. Getting ready for elk hunting starts now.

One other question, does the 125 grain Stingers with the 3/4" bleader blades, do as good of job at bleeding out a animal/good blood trail, as say a Thunderhead, Muzzy or any other quality 1 1/8" three blade broadhead. I look at the NAP Crossfires and realy like them too, but they only come in 100 Grains. Here is what I have figured out so far, I imagine that with a drop away rest I will have somewhere around a 29" length arrow. That figures out to 266.8 grains if I go off what I have been told of 9.2 grains per inch. Figure in 35 grains for fletching, nock, and insert. Top it of with a 125 grain head for a total weight of 426.8 grains. Now I have made a few call and learned a bit about the weighted straws. They can go the entire length of the arrow up until the insert, for best fit touching the insert. I don't know how long a GT insert is but I am guessing somewhere around an inch. So if the weighted straw is somewhere around 28" long and I go with 3 grains per inch for a total weight of 84 grains. And when I add that to my arrow it gives me total arrow weight of 510.8 grains. Now I figured using GT front of center calculator on their web site, it comes to 11.12% Front-of-Center Balance Point. To figure that I had to add the 3 gpi of the straw weight, to the 9.2 gpi of arrow weight for a total of 12.2 gpi at 29". I realize that the arrow is not 12.2 gpi for the entire length of the arrow becaue of the insert but I didn't know how else to figure it so that's what it came to. I know that is a rough estimate but I bet its close, as soon as I talk to GT and get some strait answers of exact weights of my arrows I will know for sure. I shoud have the arrows at my door in about 2 weeks and I have reloading Scales so that shoud help me out too. Hope I didn't confuse you all with this.

BareBack Jack, and justhuntitall I want to thank you for your input as well, that was rude of me to not mention you guys and give thanks in the preivous post.

Thanks Jason

Jason, I am not to familiar with adding the weight to the arrow. I shoot the terminator 6075's and they are already around 12 grains per inch. Your FOC seems doable at what you are stating . I am sure that putting the weighted insert could effect the spine of your arrow. I am curious to hear how they work. Keep us posted on that one.

I am not familiar with the stingers. However the wider the cut, and more area that is cut, the better the chance is for a better blood trail. With the setup that you are getting put together, Penetration should not be huge issue, so I would look at the head that opens the biggest wound channel.