Montana Bob, EKM - Don't you see we already agree. You guys are saying things like "I am consistently amused how either everyone is silent about this stuff or it is poo-poo'd as not relevant." Lets use buck59's post as common ground since you were applauding it. He says in his post "we do not want to eliminate any one species just control it." He gave evidence why we should. In an earlier post I said that I agreed that wolves are beginning to be a problem in a few areas. Thats what I've been saying all along. The whole point of this thread was to bring the people against wolves breathing earthly air, and those for it to common ground. But because we disagree on whether wolves hould exist you guys continue to argue when we're all saying the same thing about how wolves should be managed. Not one person here has said keep them listed and\or under the FED's control.

"I hope it won't be long intill wolf hunting will be legal and hunted like we do Cats with a quota". How many times has everyone said that Montana Bob? Why are you continuing to throw that out like its in dispute. We've all said this a thousand times.

De-list them, states should have control, we should have population caps, problem animals should be destroyed or moved, if a significant effect on other species begins to happen then an emergency plan to reduce wolf pops needs to be issued, wolves are already causing problems in some areas.

Why are we even arguing about this issue anymore? We all agree on the above paragraph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rather,

There are more here than us three. More disagree than agree.

Granted, a small cluster may have reached and uneasy middle ground, BUT the kicker is still that what we think don't count for squat --- it is the Fed's call, they have the power and don't appear anywhere close to letting go of it.

A majority of folks here appear to be plum happy to follow the Fed's/PhD route and hope for the best and surely it will all turn out okay. A minority don't trust them any further than they can throw them (with good reason), is looking at the damage done so far, and see storm clouds building on the near horizon and aren't willing to lower their guard one bit.

IMHO, that is just kinda the way it is and will probably stay.

EKM

This is just my opinion but I think underlying all the arguements is does the wolf belong in the lower 48 states? This thread keeps shifting to have a "should wolves be here?" type of feel to it. Honestly I can't remember anyone saying "keep wolves protected." If I'm wrong then its still a small majority saying that. (At least on these boards) Thats the only point I was trying to make.

You know, its true what we say here won't become law but at least we get our thoughts and feelings out and maybe we can share info with each other and maybe one day we will have at least some say in this issue in our own state. Disagreeing, agreeing, sharing info and sharing thoughts can't be a bad thing. Right?

Even if we never have a say at least we have these boards to vent on.

Hey - Its me again - the central scrutinizer - I was down with a virus

Did I miss anything?

Well written, rather_be_huntin.
I think the govt. should work on controlling the human population,instead of the wolf population.Just my opinion.

My feelings about the woves have already been expressed by poluke, Elkkampmaster, and Montanabob. I just read something regarding wovles that i think some of you would be interested in though. Famous outdoor writer Russell Annabel has a book called Alaskan Adventures, which is a compilation of some of his short stories, and some of his stories are about the wolves in Alaska in the mid 1900's. The long and short of his stories is the feds decided to protect the wolves in Alaska when they were spreading, much like the situation we have now, and the wolves spread like wildfire (once again this strongly resembes the situation we have now). Like someone already said on this post, the wolves dont just kill the weak animals, and in Alaska the wolves started slaughtering entire herds of game animals, in one account Annabel says he found a spot where a pack of wolves killed over 300 dall sheep , and only one or two of them were even eaten. Like our elk herds now, Alaskas game herds started to plummet in numbers, and the government was forced to step in just to save their game animals from nearly being extincted. They had to spend a very large sum of money to hire local pilots and gunners to get the wolf population into check. Our current wolf situation here in Wyoming, and also in Montana and Idaho, sounds so much like the problem they had in Alaska fifty years ago that it floors me how naive the feds have been to the rising wolf problem. They should have seen it coming from a mile away, or should I say fifty years away. Something better get done about he wolves now, before we are forced to hire men to thin out the wolves.

Also, I am appaled at the feds rejection of our wolf plan here in Wyoming. We could start controling the wolves immediately if the feds would accept our plan, but instead they continue to refuse it. And the plan has been reviewed and deemed appropriate by an unbiased board of SCIENTISTS! Even our best science says our plan is a good one, but the feds still refuse it. WHAT AN OUTRAGE!

In the early 70's i was hired to "do something" about the dog packs around a town in Alaska where i lived. There had been (2) people in seperate incidences attacked, and all kinds of other problems. I found that a dog "alone", was just some ones pet, but when several of these "pets" got together, they weren't pets any longer!!

The locals put a leash law into affect, and anything not leashed or on your own property was fair game!! It was made "very clear" to me "unoficially" what they wanted, so i started shooting the dog packs untill i had them cleaned out. The damage these dogs did was amaseing!!! I destroyed close to 300 dogs before it was over, and even shot one who attacked me. (after hours while i was on a trail) Lucky for "me", i had a revolver in my pocket, and stoped the situation before it got out of hand.

By the time the 90's rolled around, i had seen where these dogs of my past had inherreted there "love of the kill"!! I had been hunting in the bush for many years by then and saw for "my self" just what wolves are like. I didn't then, and don't now, need a "study" to tell me these things, i was there, and i experenced them first hand!!

In all the years i was around wolves, i never "one time" personally knew even "one" property owner that loved wolves, once the wolves got established in there area!!!

Drilling Man

"Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them." NO, WAIT.... that author was some crank philosopher and did not use the scientific method to reach that conclusion; therefore, it is not valid.

Besides the wolfeee thing is such a romantic idea,
they are just SOOO cute,
suburbia just loves that "call of the wild" howl they have never heard,
plus it is important that we not lose sight of all the economic benefits involved with this deal (locals excluded)....

Just think of all the professional, high paying employment possibilities:
Those science boys can study them on the way up,
Those science boys can study them right up to the epidemic (oops - just a small statistical aberation),
Those science boys can figure out ways to take them down to "managable" (probably have to hire new troops for that one)....

and the USFG can take all the "appropriate" steps at each stage and manage the whole thing.

It's a GREAT plan! The last thing needed is to let the States get in there and muck it all up!

Hey guys, do you remember the "good old days" when we used to go hunt elk in Colorado and those great herds we used to see.....?

Sigh,

EKM