ELKampMaster

338Shooter,

Nice response and kind of you to venture into the "grey zone" and address some of the "what ifs" and "just buts" that the "pro 270" folks usually leave out. This horse has been beat a dozen times over and it seems the thread starters never search the old theads but just hang it out there to be answered again and again. Meanwhile lots of us get a little tired of writing an encyclopedia each time to fully address it -- you did a nice job.

In this internet forum environment compared to an "around the campfire" setting where eye contact can be made, tone measured, and the BS meter is right there for everyone to see.... it seems like there are some standard "talking point" default assumptions used by the sub-30 folks that just keep coming up again and again and no matter how many times you address/explain/weigh them, they are like a bad penny, they just keep turning up, so don't be suprised:

1. On the internet EVERYONE shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards offhand and NEVER fail to put the bullet where it belongs when taking game,

2. No one has EVER wounded an animal or had one get away (that they'll admit to).

3. ALL hunters that use "standard cartridges" (whether the author or not) are crack shots and ALWAYS put their shots right thru the heart and lungs; whereas all hunters that use "magnum cartridges" are ALL afraid and inept with their rifles and ALWAYS hit their animals in the guts.

4. All hunter that use "magnum cartridges" couldn't shoot "standard cartridges" well so they decided to remedy the problem by shooting magnums.

5. Elk are merely large deer. Since all elk patiently pose broadside to the hunter, any taking of quartering, head on, or straight away, or raking shots is a sure sign of an unskilled or unethical hunter and the idea of using a larger rifle to be able to accommodate such shots successfully is sacriledge.

6. 50% of those who will comment on a rifles or hunting for elk thread have NEVER set foot in elk country with a loaded rifle in their hands.

Again, nice post,
BTW what is your opinion of 270 for elk?
You'll only have to wait a few weeks, then we get to do it all again!

Good Luck and Good Hunting,

EKM

bigbulls

I try to stay around an inch and so far I have never failed to put a .270 bullet where it belonged. If I didn't feel that I had a good shot I didn't take it and have passed on more than a few elk.

So far only one with a 7mm Rem Mag and one with a bow. Made me sick and I / we searched for days to try to find them to no avail.

Usually right through the heart and lungs, but I have put known to put it through the liver and lung and have put a few through shoulders and briscuit too. I wouldn't say that all magnum shooters are inept at all but some certainly are and think that a bigger and faster bullet is somehow a magic remedy for not knowing your rifle and load. Just as some "standard" shooters are just as inept.

Not all or even most but some do.

Would never say that elk are just big deer and "pose" for a shot. I would and have taken all of those with the .270 and good bullets except for the straight away shot but I wouldn't take that shot with a .416 Rigby. All but one went all the way through and resulted in a short, well identified, tracking job.

Guess I don't fall into this 50% of people. Probably not as long as you and some others but certainly long enough but you are right.


The .270 used to be a bad choice for elk twenty or thirty years ago but with the bullets available today, like the Barnes, TBBC, Failsafe and other super bullets, it is every bit as effective as some of the magnums were back then. Can you take a 500 yard shot on a 1000 pound bull like you could with a ultra mag? No, of course not. would i ever reccomend using a 130 grain "deer" bullet? Never. But. inside of 300 yards or so and with a bullet designed for the task at hand it will take elk down with all the authority needed and some to spare.

Basically IMO, a big bullet won't ever make up for a shooter that does not have the ability to shoot his or her rifle or one that does not have the dicipline to take a high percentage shot or pass when they do not have a high percentage shot. No matter what the cartridge a hunter still needs to have a bit of self dicipline when hunting elk or any animal.


You got that right. Maybe the mods could combine a few of these threads and post it to the top of this message board???? Whatcha say mods???????[8D]

Sharp Shooter

I think a 270 with a 150-160 grain bullet will work pretty good. I'm 12 and shoot a 7mag for big game. For elk I think any thing with a caliber of 270 or larger will work.

cherokee_outfitters

Kind of hit a nerve there 338, talking about the magnum being okay for a grey zone shot. That falls back to the elmer keith theory of a raking shot on a elk with a magnum. Basically what he was sayin is what 338 just said limited light, poor animal position and the hunt winding down. Shooting an animal under poor conditions such as bad angles or a straight out ass shot so maybe just maybe you'll get another shoot is pure bull****. For all you that take shots like that so you try to get your kill everyyear make me sick. Sounds a bit harsh but I'll tell you what that is piss poor hunting ethics in my book.

Okay back on the 270 subject. It's more than adequate for elk and always will be unless the start building robo elk. I've seen enough magnum hunters that couldn't shoot their rifle to last me a lifetime while guiding. While some can shoot magnums as well as any other rifle I'm not picking on those guys. The worst thing I hate to hear from a new client is I just bought me a 338 ultra mag for the elk hunt. When the guy shot a 30-06 all his life he trades his trusty gun for a gun he really and trully hasn't had enough time to familiarize themselves with. I'd rather see a deer hunter from back east show up with a 270, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06 or anyother legal caliber for elk than trade off for a new elk rifle unless he's had time to get to know the rifle.

Take your 270 elk hunting. And don't be afraid of the 130gr bullet on elk I've seen it take more elk than most hunter will ever kill. Don't let that outfitter tell you when to shoot you take the shot for yourself. Take sensible shots that's what kills game not power.

While i'm on the subject if you can't kill game without having a cannon you need to take your ass back to the range and start practicing.

marty1028

Elk hunting in Craig, CO is better in the late seasons, but it just depends on the weather.

Wolf killer

I think you have two choices.
1) Stick with the 270 and buy ammunition that uses premium bullets. Barnes-X, Nosler Partition, Winchester Fail Safes, TBBC or Speer Grand Slam. You want a bullet that will hold up to a elk at 30-yards. Many elk every year are killed inside of 100-yards. You need a bullet that preforms well from the muzzle to 300-yards. If you shoot a elk at 30-yards with a ballistic tip bullet? The ballistic tip bullet could blowup & fail to enter the animal? I had my own 270-winchester do this on a antelope at 37-yards. (I check the yardage with a laser range finder after I killed the antelope with a second shot.) I stunded the antelope enough to get a second shot after he jump and ran a few yards. My second bullet held together & killed the antelope. Had that been an elk instead of a antelope? I am sure I would have never seen that elk again.

2) Buy a 338-caliber rifle to add to your collection. The jump from the 270 to the 338 is a big one, but its a good choice. This 338 would be a fine collection to your battery if you choose to elk hunt again? The 338 is a fine choice for other game such a big bears & moose.
There could be one problem with the 338? If you do not shoot it well or if you are recoil sensitive? You would be better off with your 270-winchester. Just make sure what ever rifle you decide to hunt with you shoot it well. DO NOT go out to a local sporting goods store & buy a box of premium ammo & think you are ready to go hunting. Buy some ammo now & shoot it. Find out what shoots well in your rifle & stick with it.

skeeter 7MM

One of the guys I hunt with uses a 270 and has taken more elk with one shot than a lot ever will. Not that the gun is the real reason as he is very good and has some lady luck with picking his spots, but using a 270 with 150 gr nosler part hasn't caused him any concern. Personally I have taken 2 elk and 3 moose with a 270 using either 140 gr failsafes or 150 gr nosler parts, needing only one shot on all occasions. I believe first and foremost you must select a solid constructed and premium bullet when chasing the bigger critters like moose and elk. Secondly one must know his/her limitations both ability and gun wise, you must also be able to stick to those in the heat of the moment. While a larger gun may buy you more range and a few different angles, one still owes it to the animals to pick a shot that presents the best outcome..to me their is no such thing as grey areas when it comes to shooting, either you have the shot or you don't(forcing the issue can and will only result in let downs over time). If you expect shots to be outside those limitations than taking the 270 may not be the best option. For example; when I used a 270 for bigger game I limited myself to 250 max and preferably under 200 and a good view of the H/L region, which never presented me with any problems in my areas. My suggestion would find out from others what type of range the shots typically will be and if that fits into your limitations. If so then you can choose either option stick with the 270 you know or opt for a new gun for this hunt. Of course going bigger never hurts, so if you think you'll hunt elk or require a larger rifle in the future that isn't a bad choice either...just buy it and hit the range hard to get familar to the new toy so that come time for the trip you have confidence and know what you can and can't do! I still suggest a premium bullet like mentioned in other posts for elk.

Best of luck and enjoy!

Bear Wallow

The .270 is enough gun, I think. I've used it on bull elk and had great success. The gun I use the most is an old Mauser .30-06, but the .270 is one of my favorites for javelina to elk in AZ.

justhuntitall

Boy Iam glad all you guys filled me in about whats big enough to kill elk . Them elk I killed with my bow must of been scared to death. Just funning happy not to be talking about wolves.

338shooter

There are basically two camps out there when it comes to rifles/big game hunting guns. There is the "Elmer Keith camp" as Cherokee mentions, and the "Jack O'Connor camp" that advocate the 270 for everything. These two were at odds (and didn't particularly like each other) when they were at "Outdoor Life," and as seen in this forum are still at odds.

I happen to fall in the Keith camp. That is just the way I feel. I am not advocating taking ill-advised shots as Cherokee seems to think, but I do believe that magnums are a better "worst-case-senerio" gun, when able to be shot well. I also believe that most people can train themselves to be able to shoot a gun with recoil. It is called practice. People that go after the "big-five" better be able to shoot well (put a shot where they want it) but also shoot a big gun (one that has recoil).

Cherokee, as a guide myself, I have seen first time elk hunters "from out east" not be able to shoot. They shoot their trusty '06, and when they see their first bull they can't calm themselves and occasionally take a bad shot or make a bad shot. Not every does that, but some do. That is where I believe a magnum has some advantage.

Just my belief. I know not everyone is going to agree, and that is fine, but there has to be a discussion, or forums like this would be no fun.

ElkKamp, my feeling on the 270 is that it is the starting point for elk hunting, for people on a guided hunt with a limited amount of time. People that are able to hunt from September until December can be more selective with shots and thus use something like a .243 or 257 Roberts. I think a 30 caliber is a little better choice, and Obviously I like magnums, but the 270 is a good starting point.