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Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

Old 01-09-2004, 07:43 PM
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

That's kind of like deciding whether you want to buy a Corvette or a Peterbilt. Both of them can go fast and if either of them hit you at 90 MPH, you're dead. On the other hand, if you are hit by the Corvette at 30 MPH you have a somewhat better chance of survival than if hit by the Peterbilt at 25 MPH so all things are relative. Energy = Mass times velocity squared so the energy is dependent upon the velocity and (usually) the larger the caliber, the more mass you can put down range at (sometimes) a greater or equal velocity.
You don't give much information about where you will be hunting, what you will be hunting or if you are in to pain. The pain comes in when you factor in another law of physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore the more "stuff" you put down range, the more "Stuff" you have coming back into your shoulder. This may be mitigated to an extent by using a rifle that is heavier in weight and with more surface area in the butt plate to spread the energy over a greater area, there are also systems of porting the muzzle to help alleviate some of the perceived recoil. Some folks (see elkampmaster) have a propensity for large caliber rifles and insist they can shoot one all week and never develop even the slightest notion that they had been shooting anything other than their kids Daisy BB gun. Along those same lines though, the Chinese, with a population well in excess of one billion, insist that their national past time is ping-pong, some folks will lie about anything.
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Old 01-10-2004, 01:21 AM
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

I have been looking at new rifles too and looking at different calibers. I have a couple 30-06s and a 308. after much looking I was forced to admit that the caliber was not the limiting factor, it was me. It hurts to admit this but it is the truth. I see no use, (for me atleast), to spend big money for an expensive caliber that I can't shoot any better than one of my 30-06s. I have a feeling that this is the case with way more people than want to admit it. I think I am better off spending my money buying more cheap 30-06 ammo and practicing with it than spendig it on a fancy caliber. Just my .02
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Old 01-10-2004, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

In response to all the above comments, the only rifle I shot was a borrowed Browning bar 30 06, I think 150 grn. power points with Simmons ateac scope. 5 deer shot between 100 - 130 yds. ( unlimited doe tags) All shots were good vital hits but were high. I don"t know if this was because the gun was sighted in by my friend months earlier or if it's just my aiming from a stand 25' high. This was my only deer hunt but I expect to do more and maybe larger game. So deciding to buy my 1st rifle has become an intense and exciting venture. Normally, I've heard the bolt actions are more accurate than tha bar's, but I have to admit, shooting 3 doe in sucession with the bar was an experience I'll never forget. I have not found any comparisons of accuracy, fps or me between bolts and bars. Is there much of a difference using identical ammo ? I don't know what ranges I'll be shooting from in the future, but I'd like to know I could shoot accurately enough at 300 to 500 yds for a clean quick kill but not overshoot at shorter range. Thanks for comments and good hunting.
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Old 01-10-2004, 06:09 AM
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

Hi cheeta264,

There could be many reasons that your shots were "high". As you said, it may have been just because someone else zeroed the rifle. Which is why you should always "check the zero" for yourself....prior to hunting with another's rifle. Also, I'm inclined to believe, that what may have happened is this. Many people will sight a centerfire rifle approximately 3" high at 100 yards. This gives them a maximum Point Blank Range (PBR) for hunting. In essense you can hold on the center of the shoulder and have the bullet go no more than 4", or so, above....or below....the point of aim out to the maximum effective range of that load. In case of your .30-06 with 150 grain bullets....probably about 260 to 300 yards, (I'm guessing....I don't have the ballistics table in front of me). And there is nothing wrong with this type of has a propensity to put your shots high at the mid ranges. And on a small deer it can be a large enough difference to either cause a "bad" hit high....or even over shoot the animal. Which is why many people that zero a rifle thus....will consciously hold low on the all mid ranges. But these are all factors you need to be aware of....if you are going to contemplate shooting at live long range.

And that is one of the more simple problems/solutions long range shooting requires you be aware of. Altitude, humidity, mirage, wind speed and direction, all have as much to do as the range with consistantly hitting a target. And known distances on a range that you are familiar with the wind not the same as in the field. And all of this prior to factoring in the animal moving at an inopportune moment.....some light vegetation you didn't see....and less "bullet action" on target at long range. All factors a responsible hunter will consider....BEFORE they shoot at a live animal.

I am not trying to dissuade you from taking up hunting and long range shooting....but rather, realistically apprise you of the challenges you should be prepared to overcome...rather than risk needlessly losing a wounded animal.

Good luck with your endeavor!
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Old 01-10-2004, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

Cheatah264-As akbound pointed out,you were using a borrowed gun that you did not sight in.You should never hunt with any gun until you have fired it at a target to check the zero yourself.As for your 100 to 130 yards shots,almost any gun would be capable of providing adequate accurracy at such short distances.As to accuracy of bars,they tend to be more accurate than most other semi autos but on average bolt actions are still more accurate and of course much more dependable.As for shooting three deer in succession,an experienced bolt action shooter can deliver accurate follow up shots nearly as fast.With practise you learn to cycle the bolt while the gun is recoiling and by the time you have recovered from the recoil another round is in the chamber.
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Old 01-12-2004, 05:04 PM
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Lee , New Hampshire
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

I have sold many different weapons & scopes...I reload everything, as do others on this site..There is a lot of good info found on others posts listed above.
I own or have owned just about every caliber that is out there.. I have had the opportunity to compare all scopes and have seen them tested first hand on a "G" machine... so here is my 2 cents >>>
I am a 30-06 fan by far but then again I reload so I can squeeze every ounce out of it..It's a good all round weapon...Looking at what is available from factory loads it has a wide range too choose from 55 grain up to 220
Second choice but a better shooter due to ballistic coefficient is the 7mm mag...another great gun, a very capable cartridge. I would not hesitate to shoot anything in North America with this.
Third choice would be 300 win mag.. it was designed for the 1000 yards competition. so we know it's ability..if this is your first weapon of this size you may find it a bit much..something to move up to but I don't think it should be your first pick.
Scopes : Leopold number one by far hands down..dollar for dollar
You can pay more for others and see no difference..want to
know more just ask!
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Old 01-13-2004, 10:18 AM
Fork Horn
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

It sounds like you are comfortable with the BAR so use that. The 30-06 with premium bullets will do the job as far as than you can shoot accurately. Accuracy, recoil, and bullet composition are critical to lang range success far more than caliber, velocity, or energy especially when talking about .270 and larger. I had myself convinced I needed a 300UM as my one gun for everything. After much reading and studying I am simply going to do a bedding and trigger job and put a synthetic stock on my old Model 70 30-06. I have great confidence with that gun that no amount of increased energy or trajectory will overcome.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: Energy vs. Velocity vs. Caliber

tbone. Smart man.
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