anyone else really pissed at the ever increasing licence fees
 

Is anyone else really pissed at the ever increasing licence fees, out of state hunting licences, restricted draw points, fewer over the counter licences and states requiring you to pay in full for licences months in advance, especially when you can,t hunt where you want too for years at a time?
even in a few states theres laws you can,t hunt the same area two years running.
this is always been a financial as much as game numbers, and hunting quality issue but it seems like a damn race to see which state can price the average blue collar guy totally out of hunting.

http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/a...dentCombo.html

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Hunting/WGFD_APPNARRATIVE

http://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pa...esandFees.aspx

https://idfg.idaho.gov/licenses/fees-nonresident

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/licensing/hunting

I hear the same rant every couple of years. Bottom line is the price on everything has gone up. Most game depts use license fees to fund them. If the cost of doing business for everything goes up then license fees also have to go up.

When I started driving at 16 years old a gallon of unleaded was 48 cents. Today I paid $2.28 for unleaded. Costs for everything else have gone up as well. In 1985 I bought a new Ford F-150 XLT Lariat 4x4 for $10,250. Today that truck would cost at least $40,000. Game depts have to buy vehicles, fuel, radios, airplanes, office supplies, lab eqpt etc... and it all cost more today than it did 5 years ago. Expecting license fees to stay the same isn't logical.

Nobody makes you or I buy a tag. I hunt because I want to and I don't care what it costs, I'll pony up the cash for the tag. I'd rather pay than not play. But to each his/her own. I have had hunters cry about tag fees to me when they go out and buy a new pickup every year. Or have the latest and newest technological gizmo. Or blow a grand or two a year at the dog races. or burn up a bunch of cash by buying booze and tobacco. Yet they cry about some $$$ to hunt. I drive old trucks that are paid off. I have a computer that is 6 years old. I don't own a smartphone. I don't gamble or smoke and I rarely drink. But I do hunt. Priorities my man, priorities.

Nope, not me, I expect license fees to increase, My state has not had an increase in 20 years and it is a crime that the general assembly in PA will not pass a license increase bill. I don't expect to hunt in 2018 for the same price I paid in 1978. I also expect to pay more for a non resident license than a resident of whatever state I am hunting in does. It really make you shake your head when people think nothing of spending over a grand for a rifle and over $2,000 for a high end crossbow and then bellyache abut having to pay a couple of hundred dollars for a hunting license. Nothing is for nothing.

Flags when I started driving in 1963 gasoline cost 26 cents a gallon and my hunting license cost $5.00, I smoked at that time and a pack of cigs was a quarter.

I doubt you can find a single state where all the licences total less than $700 and most will cost over $1000 for a deer/and elk combo
I don,t expect prices to remain at the 1960s prices I started with, but now that Im retired spending $2K-$4K on a weeks entertainment takes some of the fun out of the trip.
here in FLORIDA the local resident guys over 65 no longer are required to buy a hunting licence ,
Id love to see some discount in the price for the non-resident guys over 65 even if it was just a couple hundred $

To me it's the best purchase of the year! I get more enjoyment out of hunting than almost anything, it's therapeutic and helps me decompress from the stress of owning a construction company. If it's too expensive you must not love it.

Ive been making the trip most years for almost 50 years now, I love the hunting, but finances are not always what they used to be either.

You have to learn, you adapt to conditions. Conditions never adapt to you. In PA if you bought all the licenses as a non resident they would not add up to $700.00 and it would be unusual for a non resident to purchase all the license that were offered in another state. If you want to play, you have to pay, if you don't want to pay, don't play, your choice.

I grew up in CO. I used to be able to buy resident elk tags for very little money. I paid less than $70 for a bighorn tag when I shot my ram. But I now live in TX and if I want to hunt CO I pay non-resident fees despite being a CO resident for more than 45 years and still owning property there. But in TX I don't pay any state income taxes and frankly I save a lot more in tax money that I spend in non-resident fees.

You can cry or you can hunt. I'll hunt.

First, hunting anywhere is a privilege, let alone hunting a state outside of the one you reside in. I will comment on my state, Montana. Yes, over a $1000 for NR big game combo is high, you know what else is high, state income tax, had over $21,000 withheld this past year for state income tax, true, a small portion will refunded, but still a lot of money, not even counting other state and local taxes. A NR get's by cheap in my opinion. Does NR hunting help our state economy, of course, but you can make the argument that resident hunting suffers from it, I know residents who have been denied tags to certain areas here in Montana, while a NR get's to draw a tag, sorry, to me, that is wrong. Some will say that is greedy thinking, but, who is the greedy one, those wanting to hunt where they live, or those expecting hunting opportunity in other states along with the one they call home?

It's a numbers game, spreading increasing costs among a decreasing number of hunters.

That is part of the equation, however, the rest of it is the continued rising costs of everything for the game agencies.

Flags, don't forget FL has Osceolas and that's where they make a few extra bucks from us NR's.....but don't take that as a complaint, $125 isn't a bad cost if your working on the slam.
I also want to add that I like the way this thread is going, you need to pay to play, if you don't like what your state has to offer or charges, look into hunting elsewhere.

yeah we in florida, have turkey and wild hogs in huge numbers, in some areas and a great deal of public land
theres no real challenge getting hogs with almost any weapon, and a decent shot won,t go more than a couple days without turkey hunting the better areas
hogs can be hunted year round in some areas


http://myfwc.com/media/1380222/huntingwmamap.pdf

Gotta pay to play.

And there's no chance of the prices dropping anytime soon.

-Jake

I'll play the game, but I wonder if I'll ever be priced out of playing.

My big problem is that residents and non-residents, non-res pay anywhere from 8-40x what a resident pays for the same tag.

I think the multiplier should be capped at 8-10x and honestly 1-2x would be fair/ideal IMO.

Everyone will say they pay taxes....so they get a discount in their home state, and my view is we all pay our local/state taxes, it would be nice not to subsidize other hunters in other states.

If a resident can't pay $1,000 for a Sheep, Moose, Goat tag, once in a lifetime tag/hunt, then they shouldn't be applying, again just my opinion.

Also when a resident pays $40 for a bull elk tag or even less, and the non-res pays over $1000, you're telling me we can't meet more in the middle?

Not sure non-res justify being jerks but if were both chasing the same animal/area/water hole, and I'm paying 1000 and you're paying 40? I think this might give some non-res the attitude that they should get the right of way. Just some food for thought.

While I doubt res will ever pay the same tag fees non-res pay, just imagine if residents had to pay those fees...? I bet less than 10% of residents would even bother applying anymore. Odds would go way up!

Every state is different and has to manage their herds accordingly, but I think seeing a cap multiplier would be nice, 5-10x seems reasonable in most cases.

I think it is a crackpot idea. Not you, the idea. The last thing we need is another federal law telling the states how to run their affairs.

How are you subsidizing my hunting? There is A LOT of expenses associated with NR hunting that you are taking for granted. P.S....NR getting right of way...hmm, maybe this explains why a handful of times a year, I will come across a rig with out of state plates, sitting just over the rise, in the middle of the road, checking out something.

I don,t think a lot of the politicians and game department's fully appreciate the full economic impact, or amount of money that INDIRECTLY gets fed, into that economy with the out of state hunter , coming into the state to hunt, in car/truck fuel, food car/truck rentals,motel, restaurant,super market, guide service fees,and miscellaneous purchases or is MISSING into the states economy when the license fees get raised to the point that guys just decide to skip hunting, in that particular state, because of the licence cost, I doubt I've ever spent less than $2400 on a weeks elk hunting, and spending $3k plus on a hunt, is very common, keep in mind theres usually three or four guys on any hunt, we either drive out in two trucks or fly in and rent two 4x4 trucks, motel fees restaurants, local sporting goods stores, also benefit, so just our little group will very easily spend at least $6-$8 k in a week in, lodging, fuel, food, guide fees etc. the state and I doubt we were unique in spending that volume of cash, hunting..
in most case the licence fee is not the major expense , but it certainly has a pronounced effect on what states tend to be considered by guys planing to hunt, out of state.
I generally spend several thousand dollars a year on hunts and several years I found I could because of almost overlapping, or consecutive dates, hunt one state, then as that season closed drive to a second state, to hunt the following week.
Colorado, Montana , Idaho, and Wyoming frequently have consecutive dates.
dumping $3-$4 k would be the minimum and several years that would be exceeded by a significant margin,but as those licence fees rise most guys limit the areas and eventually just don,t bother at some point, as the financial cost keeps climbing.
if you are faced with lets say a $600-$700 combo deer/elk hunt licence cost most guys fully accept they will spend 3-4 times that minimum, over that money, spent on licences, on a hunt, but once the licence cost has climbed much higher I see lots of guys in my elk hunt club just decide to hunt deer in some other location , like DEER IN NOVA SCOTIA https://novascotia.ca/natr/hunt/pdf/...klet_Sept7.pdf

its not that most guys are CHEAPSKATES, they will be very willing too spending thousands on any hunt, , they just want VALUE for the money
ID also point out that statistically most hunters most years do not succeed so they spent all that cash on a failed chance to collect game, yeah they may have had a memorable vacation and enjoyed it, but they did not really do much more than boost the local economy, in the process.
most hunters in most states have about a 1 in 4 chance of success.


think about that, statistically if you spent only $2k per hunt, youll spend near $10K statistically before you score on every elk

Each state sets the liceses how they want and what the market will bear. It doesn't really matter what you want, what matters is what the residents of the individual states want to be done in THEIR states.

I agree with a lot of what's being said on both sides and the bottom line as it's been stated previously is "you got to pay to play". It's all about personal choice (ie: I have friends that will drop hundreds of dollars to go to a professional sporting event or concert and those events usually only last a few hours......personal choice).

If you paid $21,000 in state income taxes, how about we swap incomes? My Dad always said to try to find a job where you pay a lot of taxes because that means you're doing pretty darn well. Anyone want to swap places with people who pay no taxes? I doubt it. :guiness:

No thanks, I have worked very hard in my life....my mother raised 5 boys, worked 2 jobs, one of which was cleaning other folk's toilet's. Me and my wife live very comfortable, thankfully. Paying those taxes is not an "if"....we pay those, and do a fair amount of giving here in Montana where we live. I think there is a lot to be said for being part of your community and state, hit's a nerve when people just want to come and take what we have, then complain about cost...

Yes, rising costs in lots of areas of life. Yes, hunting is a privilege. Yes, I think it's gotten out of hand. Lots of different philosophies here, but I think the fees and regs have gone too far...

Montana probably has the lowest cost of resident hunting licenses in the country. As a resident geezer, my cost to fish and hunt for upland birds, turkey, deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, black bear, moose, mtn goat, mtn lion, bison, and wolf would be $622.25.


HOWEVER, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, and bison are draw tags with chances of drawing some of those tags of less than 1/2 of 1%. Although I was lucky enough to have drawn all of those tags, except bison, 30 or more years ago, I have applied for a mtn goat tag for 40 straight years without drawing.


I got flamed on another thread for posting that Wyoming has priced me out of hunting in their state, as have the other western states including my native state of Colorado (where gas was 19 cents a gallon when I was 16 and started driving there).


I am not pissed at the increasing non-resident license fees, I just refuse to pay them when I can hunt any of those animals in my home state for only a fraction of the cost.

And that is a sensible way to look at the situation rather than want the states to be controlled on how much they may charge a none resident. The same tack I take, if I don;t think the juice is worth the squeeze, I don't squeegee.

If I wanted to live by a beach, I'd be living on a state that has a coastline. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd live somewhere the economy was booming.

I'd rather live in/near the mountains and away from the crowds and "conveniences," which is why I'm in Wyoming. I endure the hazards and risks, and I enjoy the benefits.

When I was an avid snowmobiler, I always found it interesting that the nonresidents who'd pour in from Colorado and the flatland states would scream about a $30 ORV permit (there was no resident or nonresident tag), while pulling $35K in snowmobiles with a fancy $60K diesel crew-cab truck. Poor them. Hunters aren't much different.

If you want cheap licenses, go live where you hunt.

I would feel a little better about it if NRs didn't have to pay for most of those DOWs new trucks, gas, programs, etc. In Colorado, NRs have a "cost of living" price increase EVERY year. If the same thing happed to residents, we wouldn't really have an argument, but it doesn't

So, I guess I'm a bit curious now as to what you believe DOW is supposed to do? Sit in the office and sell cheap licenses?

Here's a thought you might consider. Your license fee may reflect the cost nonresidents are generally willing to bear? Yes, there are nonresidents out there who DIY exclusively - offset by those who hire an "outfitter" who'll charge them $5K to shoot a mediocre buck on Farmer Fred's pasture. Funny how I don't hear nonresidents complain about the quality of those kinds of hunts, though?

To some degree, hunting's an industry. Most states (and especially those whose DOWs are funded by license fees and not the state's general fund) recognize that there's not a lot of money to be made going after the residents with higher license fees. They count on us for boots on the ground and selling more licenses to us instead and go after the nonresidents who may only buy one license in their lifetime in their state-to-state quests.

Don't feel too badly, it happens to us residents when we go somewhere else as nonresidents, too.

How do you figure? I am a 5th generation CO native that now lives in TX and I know for a fact the CO NR licenses do not increase in price every year. So please take a moment and explain the "cost of living" comment?

In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag.

Bottom line is that the game depts in every state work for the residents of those states and not for the residents of other states. Those residents do and should take precedence over non-residents. After all, here in TX they sure do don't they?

[QUOTE=flags;4327832]How do you figure? I am a 5th generation CO native that now lives in TX and I know for a fact the CO NR licenses do not increase in price every year. So please take a moment and explain the "cost of living" comment?QUOTE



Resident license fees can not be raised in CO without an act of the legislature because that would be a "tax increase". But NRs are exempt from that statute, so they passed a reg to allow the DOW the right to increase our fees every year tied to a 'cost of living" price index. In the rare year where prices on everything are flat, or dip then they don't raise the NR prices, but that is rare indeed. And that might have happened once since the change? So you are technically correct, but in reality they raise prices essentially every year.

Didn't the DOW make a concerted effort to raise resident prices in 2016 that failed? No matter, they just keep raising them on us.



QUOTE: In TX we do not pay any state income tax. If I lived back in my native CO I would pay 4.63% state tax. Based on my income of just less than $100,000 a year that means I would pay more than $4000 for the privilege of getting a $40 elk tag. Have you ever stopped to look at it hat way? It is cheaper for me to live in TX, save the tax $$$ and buy a NR tag. QUOTE



That income tax they pay does nothing for the animals of Colorado. So what you are saying is because Colorado is overtaxed already due to stupid liberal lawmakers, they can make NRs pay for their game departments? Sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Bottom line is they do it because they can and will continue to squeeze us for as much as we will stand. I can personally afford to pay anything they charge, so I guess I should be glad that others are being priced out of going. I guess I just look at it differently.

Here is a link to this years price increases:

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Com...AsApproved.pdf


Bull / either sex tag is now $660 (up $20)
Cow tag is $495 (Tied to aprox 75% of bull) Up $10
Deer tag is $395 (up $10)

Not big increases. Just continuing to boil the frog alive

Learn to read. I never said tag prices don't increase. What I said was that they DO NOT INCREASE every year which is what you claim. Bottom line if you don't want to pay what they want for tags, don't go there. See how easy that is?

Thanks for setting me straight! Everyone reading this realizes that Colorado has the right to rise NR prices every year and 95% of the years they are going to do that. And if you read my post you would realize that I can afford to pay the ever increasing prices. See you there unless I draw my Utah tag this year!

BS. They do not raise them 95% of the years. You've proven to be too ignorant to even continue this conversation. Feel free to have the last word.

FACT: 1) resident prices are set and can not be raised unless the legislature specifically raises them. 2) NR prices CAN be raised every year in which the economy ticks upward and usually are.

That is all I am saying, and you are trying to get caught up in making sure I state my case 100% correctly. Bottom line is that IMO, I don't think that system is fair, so we are just going to have to agree to disagree about that.

License Fees
 

I don't mind paying if I am getting something for it.

Hunting is becoming a rich mans sport. Much like in other countries.

There is limited public land in my state. Leases are becoming more common, and I don't mean on ranches. No trespassing signs everywhere, even becoming more common in the backcountry along the backside of lakes...

My bigger beef is access to lands but if people would stop target shooting and leaving their crap and tearing up ground with vehicles during mud season... well...

As a landowner I have yet to post my ground but I can say it's getting closer.

REM7600

My place isn't big, its about 200' wide x 2,00' long and goes several hundred feet up and over the hill behind me. There are no other houses on the hill above me, although there are some on the 40 acre tracts on the other side.


There are usually deer up there, occasionally elk, and I have also seen black bears, moose, and mountain lions there. Over the years I've taken a few deer and 5 elk off my land.


When I moved here there weren't many fences above me, but I fenced my land to keep my horses in. One time I was on the backside of the hill checking my fence and the people who live on the tract beyond me had hung NO TRESSPASSING and NO HUNTING signs on my fence and facing me.


So I simply re-hung the signs to face them. :D


There are no signs on any of my other fences.

Yeap, it is aggravating.....I don't hunt a lot and it costs about $230 for an out of state to hunt with my dad.

Hunting is not becoming a rich mans sport. We at least in my state have hunted for practically nothing for decades. The price of gasoline goes up, the price of eggs goes up, the price of vehicle registration goes up, the price of firearms goes up and no one gets excited because they realize it cost more to provide those things. However, when the price of a hunting license, that has been under priced for decades goes up all we hear is poor mouthing about hunting becoming a rich man's sport. Apparently, some people don't understand that the price of doing business for game agencies goes up, just like the price of food, gasoline and every thing else we all need and buy. Why people believe they should be allowed to hunt 12 months out of the year for practically nothing while the costs of the Game Agencies increases annually is beyond any reason!