RE: Grizzly Bears
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yep, we're gona tape it as part of my &quot;Buckshot for Big Game&quot; video.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

What do you want to bet you have a few onlookers armed with .375 H&H Mags as backup!
:-)

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

They weigh 80 grains each. Individually they won't penetrate as far but together they penetrate like a large slug, and that's where the damage comes in. Sort of like how the old timers would put wax in their birdshotshells to make primative slugs. Now of course the little birdshot pellets on their own won't do much damage, but when they are held together they are more or less as fragnible solid object.

And yes Iw ill have backups, most big game hunters do, espessily if they wish to do it the way I am going to.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Ok, in what book does Capstick say he'd use buck shoot at 10 yards on any animal??? Please tell me so I can look it up for myself. I don't remember reading that but maybe he did. I just want to know which book and chapter. Thanks.

Capstick used shotguns on leopards/lions only and that was to &quot;coup de grace&quot; the animal at the end. Or, if a leopard was cornerd and the only way to escape was jumping on/over/around Peter Capstick himself. In other words, the cat had no other avenue of escape, but to charge Capstick.

Now, my intelligence is getting insulted. You said that getting hit with 12 pellets of 0000 buck is like getting hit with 144 .38spl loads??????? Yeah you explained your theory of trauma etc... I say that what's said on paper or in a book is one thing, but in reality that theory is Bull crap! I guess getting hit with a claymore mine loaded with several hundred rounds of buck shot, would mean that it's like getting hit by tens of thousands of rounds of a .38spl then. So why did so many troops (both friend and foe) survive claymores? So much for theories. For that matter, what would happen if a bear got hit 12 times simultaneously by a 38spl? Would that mean that he REALLY was like getting hit 144 times by oh...I don't know....maybe 144 .357magnums????? Ridiculous theories. See what I mean?

Just like when the FBI and many law enforcement agencies said that the 9mm &quot;147gr sub sonic hollow point&quot; was the &quot;end all bullet&quot; for all &quot;end all encounters&quot;.

Well, the proof was in the pudding and real life showed/shows that the bullet has a slightly higher kill ratio and performs just above the performance of a FMJ 9mm bullet. (Which is horrible performance). The bullet has something like a 60% one shot stop kill ratio. That's HORRIBLE performance!!!!!! But on paper, and chronographs and computer models etc... it was &quot;suppossed&quot; to be the &quot;ticket&quot;....So much for theories and the bean counters.

So take that ridiculous theory and throw it in the trash. I've witnessed 00buck fail twice my friend. Once on a human and once on a dog. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a shotgun over a handgun in a gunfight any day. I just refuse to take it grizzly bear hunting.

Heck, half the time everything from #4buck to 00buck doesn't penetrate car windshields even at close distances. What's it gonna do on a grizzly bear? Sorry Blain, but I'll take my chances with a 338, 375, 416 etc... for the grizzlies. I want to come home and see my kids. Also...I don't want a pellet riddled bear hide or much damaged meat.

Seriously Blain, what kind of hunter are you that would poke a bunch of holes in the bear's fur using buck shot? You're probably going to have to use follow up shots too, unless you hit the bear in the face area. So much for mounting a nice skull for that matter.

I think the bottom line here is this:

<font color=red>WE MUST ALL AGREE THAT WE WILL ALL DISAGREE ON THIS TOPIC OF BEARS AND BUCK SHOT.</font id=red>





Edited by - Hk45USP on 01/15/2002 02:37:34

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

What is your point? In WW1 people got hit by shells weighing dozens of pounds with energies over 10 times any shoulder fired big bore and lived. Most mines only get the limbs since they are planted in the gorund, plus the buck coming out of them is not nearly the same velocity, etc. That's like asking why your cape buffalo doesn't die after shooting it repeatedly in the legs with your rifle? Shot placement is a factory to consider. If I can down a big hog 500 lbs. + with buckshot, it ought to tell you something, eh? So calm downa nd wait for me to accomplish what I have set out to do. I still have a hard time believing about the dog, musta been fractional hits which didn't hit any vitals will the second shot which killed him.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Now Now Blain,
I am the guy who is going to take you hog hunting. We do use .375H&Hs or 45/70s as back up rifles either that or you don't hunt with us. I'm glad we won't have an arguement about this. The only time anybody has ever been in true danger of being bitten slashed or other wise molested by a hog was when using buck shot. As I have previously written about and has been previously refuted by you. By the way the individual whom was nearly perferated will be on the hunt to explain in great detail just how poorly all prevoius buck shot loads have wroked on hogs. We've had some one shot stoppers with buck from that lucky golden B.B. in the head but they generally fail miserably. The above mentioned hog was shot at less than 15' head on in the skull not one pellet penetraited. We are interested to see the reults of your &quot;super load&quot;. I just read an interesting report about a guy shot in the head at 10' with 00 buck. he was killed instantley with a head shot however, not one pellet penetraited into the skull he died from a broken neck from the shot impact. Not unlike some of the head shots I've seen on hogs they tend not to penetrait at all. Now as I've written you I've seen big guns take several rounds to put a hog down but with a .375 penetraition is never the problem and a head shot eqauls dead period end of story.I'll bet you that any .375H&H will out penetrait any shot gun load ever devised. Want to take me up on that one? Why not reread some of your P.H.C novels and see what he thinks about the .375 and it's penetration with a 300 grain solid it is truley awesome.

Edited by - surestrike on 01/16/2002 21:03:48

Edited by - surestrike on 01/16/2002 21:05:48

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Heh, I know a .357 will penetrate more as it also has more energy. Yet I will put it up against my buckshot load for soft target tests, such as wetphone books, newspaper, etc. We will have some fun testing the rounds before we go hog hunting. Also I loved your last e-mail, am about to reply to it shortly.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Some how, we've got to figure out a way to get back on the topic of Grizzly bears, and off of buck shot.

I know that I'm guilty too, but let's try to see some chatter about griz out there.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Ok, I will start it. Why hunt a grizz when you can hunt a bigger coastal brown for the same tag price/limit?

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Good question Blain, and thank you for helping get us back on track.

As a life long Alaskan resident, I have never paid for a guide, and thus do not know about pricing. But I do know that the inland griz are abundant, and easy to access. The coastal griz are a bit less populace, and require different arrangements to access.

This may not be a problem for an out of state hunter, since they have to fly in anyway (as apposed to driving to the hunting area), and therefore would not notice the difference.

If the cost is the same, and your guide can assure you a high percentage of success, then I would definitely go for the coasties.

The cost between an inland griz and a coasty being the same would surprise me though, because there is a huge difference in size, and availability.

In fact, this might be a good place for any of you out there, who have looked into the pricing, to post your results.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

another reason i would hunt an inland as a resident hunter i can take one each year in at least one game management unit. where i believe all coastals are one every four years.