RE: Grizzly Bears
 

I am sorry my friend but I know of two people who have killed black bears with buckshot and one who killed a bull moose with buckshot. The moose was shot at 45 yards with an 3 1/2" 18 pellet load of 00, it droped like a rock.

One of the bears was over 500 lbs. and was killed with a 3" shell of 00. The other bear was around 350-400 lbs. and was droped with a federal 3 1/2" 00 shell. I will try to get a picture of one of the bears for you. Now if you think tose buckshot loads are bad mine has around 1/4th more power and penetration capacity than those. I'm just stating you the facts, you say that such big game animals are not killable with buckshot. The only problem is that the bears and others are not aware of the rule.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Oh and Alaska Dave, show me a .44 mag that will penetrate more than 21" into wetphone books. Hell, show me one that will even get close to that deep.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Blain, not to "gang up" on you in here, but let me ask this. How long has buck shot and the shot gun been around? I'm guessing and this is purely a guess. Maybe 150 years??? Maybe longer, maybe not. If buck shot has been around that long, how come many professional hunters (Peter Capstick of Africa fame for instance, or modern day professionals in Alaska, Africa, Canada, America, Austrailia etc...) DO NOT or DID NOT use buck shot when hunting large beasts? Particularly the big bears in North America??? Ok, I'll throw you a "bone" and say maybe a few rare instances here and there, hunters may perhaps have used buckshot successfully. But I'm willing to bet that in those instances, those hunters said, "that's the last time I use buck shot" more times than not.

I believe that pro hunters in THEIR professional opinion and experience believed BUCKshot is better for deer/humans, than big bears and other dangerous game. Hell, a .22lr could and has killed big grizzlys and even an elephant!!!! It's rare and extreme. Hell, BB guns have killed humans too. Anything is possible with firearms, but not probably or practical when it comes to the topic of buck shot and big bears.

I think that in the real and practical world of hunting, buck shot fails to perform on big creatures. It may kill 21" of wet phone books as you claim, but is probably a poor choice to use on a Kodiak. If it was all the rage, I'm sure ammo makers etc... would "push" for more hunters to use the stuff in lieu of heavy hitting rifle bullets.

Heck, look at an African lion for instance. Thin skinned, hardly any fat, lean muscle, but not as thick as a grizzly's muscle. A big bear has several inches of thick fur, fat, bone and muscle. Not to mention a tough hide (skin, which obviously isn't "inches" thick.)

Now, if buckshot works better than a big rifle bullet, why didn't the famed Peter Capstick use it on lions? He shot at close range dozens of dozens of times. You'd think that at close range with a charging lion wanting a "human sandwhich", your buckshot would be just what the doctor ordered. Well, professionals like Capstick didn't feel that way.

What about professional guide services in Alaska or Canada? Do they carry buckshot when guiding their clients on dangerous bear hunts? I'm not sure of the answer, buy I'm guessing a big whopping "NO" for the answer. Im sure Arcticbowman, Thaninator or some other people who live and hunt more in Alaska might know the answer. I don't know, maybe the guide services do use buckshot, but I'd be willing to bet money that they dont. Why? Because a big rifle bullet performs better and probably more humainly than buckshot does.

The limited hunting shows I've seen on TNN, Outdoor channel, ESPN-2 etc that have actually broken away from whitetail deer hunting programs and have shown actual bear hunts, show the guides carrying rifles if their carring anything at all. I've never ever seen one with a shotgun.

Why is that???? Heck, a good shotgun and buck shot is surely cheaper than a decent rifle. I think it's because the guides know better and don't want to take a chance with buck shot of a big dangerous bear, even if the shotgun is cheaper in price. Performance is the key and a rifle bullet simply beats buck shot in that department.

In africa, most of the pro hunters of past carried double rifles because of the fast follow up shot when encountering a close possible charging dangerous animal. Particularly for lion hunters. Like I mentioned above, a lion has weaker "body armor" than a big bear, but the pro hunters demanded a rifle. Not buckshot.

Just my opinion and observation over the years.

Edited by - Hk45USP on 01/14/2002 01:53:05

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Hey Guys:
Don't you think this buckshot discussion should be moved back to Blain's Buckshot thread? Let's keep this a discussion on Grizly bears.

Blain:
I'll take your bet on the .44's ability to penetrate the wet phone books. How much money are you willing to put up.

Though I've done this test before, I wouldn't use it to determine a round's lethality on bear. Phone books can't bite.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Thaninator ever thought about guiding a few flat lander's on a grizzly hunt?. I will pay for the tag and we can bring blain to let him &quot;test&quot; his theory (video camera also) .
How close can you normaly get to one when hunting one? 300 win mag is the largest gun I own but have access to a 338.
Mike

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Mike:
I would love to &quot;guide&quot; grizzly hunts, but state law forbids it. I would have to go through the headache of acquiring a state guiding liscense...no interest in that torture.

Besides, I enjoy exploring as much as hunting, and would find it very difficult to pick a single &quot;territory&quot; and sticking to it.

On the other hand, it's common practice to have a &quot;guest&quot; along when hunting griz.

Though a tad on the light side, a .300 mag, will suffice for griz (especially inland griz, which are significantly smaller than their coastal cousins), though if given a choice, I would definatly pick the .338, which is my personal hunting rifle caliber.

The advantage of the .338 is it's bullet weight.

Seems that most of the really close encouters with griz occur when you are not hunting them.

But this does not mean that one cannot stalk to very close (archery distances) to bear when needed.

As mentioned earlier in this post, when a bear is feeding intently, and the wind is in your favor, you can easily work yourself into hair rasing distance.

In fact, there will probably be times when you are sitting there with your bow and punny little arrow (or buckshot), wondering what the heck your doing so close :)



<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Peter Capstick said he wouldn’t hesitate to shoot buckshot at any animal at 10 yards or less cept African and Asian Elephant and Buffalo. Also keep in mind that this was back before there was even 3” shells, never mind 3 ½”ers. Also I doubt he knew much about the patterning techniques of getting really tight buckshot patterns. I guess what I don’t understand is why you don’t think buckshot is powerful? Many do use buckshot in Alaska and the north for anti bear protection, many others also use brenneke slugs. Also it should be noted that ammo makers don’t really manufactor, nevermind specilize in buckshot shells. Only one private company that I know of reloads them. That is partly why I am going on this mission and releasing this video, to prove everyone what buckshot can really do. The question is once this is all proven and documented with video evidence, what will you say/do?

Most people don’t choose buckshot because like you they are not even aware of what buckshot can do when it is setup properly. It is all so unknown so how could most people een consider making such a decision? And yes, T, I will take you up in that bet. How about for $50-100?

“Buckshot has such a traumatizing shock effect because impact damage goes up as the square of the number of simultaneous hits: 2 hits from one shot is the same as 4 hits from separate shots, 3 hits is the same as 9 independent hits, etc etc.”

Getting hit by the 12 pellet 0000 buckshot load would be akin to being shot with 144 separate shots from a .38 special!

“Statistically, in 100% of fire exchanges, lethal are 95% of the targets defeated with a shotgun, compared to 47-50% hit with an automatic weapon and 3-4% hit with a handgun.”




From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Thaninator
I meant to say have a guest flat lander UNCLE Than.

Blain I am very sure I would not want to get 10 yards or less to a mad grizzly with just a scatter gun regardless of what Peter Capstick say's . I guess if it didnt slow him down any it would give you something a little bigger than a handgun to throw at him.

Mike

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

I have withheld typing until I heard the peter capstick stuff. I just finished reading Death on the Dark Continent yesterday.

While what you are quoting might be true, the way you are quoting it is really implying something different than what is intended. Capstick does praise his shotgun. But, realize that he uses it on leopards and lions that are already wounded that he now has to get out of the brush.
he uses it only on thin skinned animals. Ones that are near death. and much of the time with lions, he uses the shotgun only to make the lion roar and give up his location and then shoots the wounded lion with a rifle.

It seemed that the only wounded animal captstick consistently used the shotgun on was a leopard. That was because he said there wassn't enough time to aim a rifle when a leopard pounced.

beej

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Oh and Alaska Dave, show me a .44 mag that will penetrate more than 21&quot; into wetphone books. Hell, show me one that will even get close to that deep.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

You think an individual 00 or 000 lead pellet weighing perhaps 40-60 grains at 1400-1500 fps will out-penetrate a hardened 250-300 grain cast bullet from a .44 Mag????

I will pray for your safety on this upcoming hunt!

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yep, we're gona tape it as part of my &quot;Buckshot for Big Game&quot; video.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

What do you want to bet you have a few onlookers armed with .375 H&H Mags as backup!
:-)

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

They weigh 80 grains each. Individually they won't penetrate as far but together they penetrate like a large slug, and that's where the damage comes in. Sort of like how the old timers would put wax in their birdshotshells to make primative slugs. Now of course the little birdshot pellets on their own won't do much damage, but when they are held together they are more or less as fragnible solid object.

And yes Iw ill have backups, most big game hunters do, espessily if they wish to do it the way I am going to.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Ok, in what book does Capstick say he'd use buck shoot at 10 yards on any animal??? Please tell me so I can look it up for myself. I don't remember reading that but maybe he did. I just want to know which book and chapter. Thanks.

Capstick used shotguns on leopards/lions only and that was to &quot;coup de grace&quot; the animal at the end. Or, if a leopard was cornerd and the only way to escape was jumping on/over/around Peter Capstick himself. In other words, the cat had no other avenue of escape, but to charge Capstick.

Now, my intelligence is getting insulted. You said that getting hit with 12 pellets of 0000 buck is like getting hit with 144 .38spl loads??????? Yeah you explained your theory of trauma etc... I say that what's said on paper or in a book is one thing, but in reality that theory is Bull crap! I guess getting hit with a claymore mine loaded with several hundred rounds of buck shot, would mean that it's like getting hit by tens of thousands of rounds of a .38spl then. So why did so many troops (both friend and foe) survive claymores? So much for theories. For that matter, what would happen if a bear got hit 12 times simultaneously by a 38spl? Would that mean that he REALLY was like getting hit 144 times by oh...I don't know....maybe 144 .357magnums????? Ridiculous theories. See what I mean?

Just like when the FBI and many law enforcement agencies said that the 9mm &quot;147gr sub sonic hollow point&quot; was the &quot;end all bullet&quot; for all &quot;end all encounters&quot;.

Well, the proof was in the pudding and real life showed/shows that the bullet has a slightly higher kill ratio and performs just above the performance of a FMJ 9mm bullet. (Which is horrible performance). The bullet has something like a 60% one shot stop kill ratio. That's HORRIBLE performance!!!!!! But on paper, and chronographs and computer models etc... it was &quot;suppossed&quot; to be the &quot;ticket&quot;....So much for theories and the bean counters.

So take that ridiculous theory and throw it in the trash. I've witnessed 00buck fail twice my friend. Once on a human and once on a dog. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a shotgun over a handgun in a gunfight any day. I just refuse to take it grizzly bear hunting.

Heck, half the time everything from #4buck to 00buck doesn't penetrate car windshields even at close distances. What's it gonna do on a grizzly bear? Sorry Blain, but I'll take my chances with a 338, 375, 416 etc... for the grizzlies. I want to come home and see my kids. Also...I don't want a pellet riddled bear hide or much damaged meat.

Seriously Blain, what kind of hunter are you that would poke a bunch of holes in the bear's fur using buck shot? You're probably going to have to use follow up shots too, unless you hit the bear in the face area. So much for mounting a nice skull for that matter.

I think the bottom line here is this:

<font color=red>WE MUST ALL AGREE THAT WE WILL ALL DISAGREE ON THIS TOPIC OF BEARS AND BUCK SHOT.</font id=red>





Edited by - Hk45USP on 01/15/2002 02:37:34

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

What is your point? In WW1 people got hit by shells weighing dozens of pounds with energies over 10 times any shoulder fired big bore and lived. Most mines only get the limbs since they are planted in the gorund, plus the buck coming out of them is not nearly the same velocity, etc. That's like asking why your cape buffalo doesn't die after shooting it repeatedly in the legs with your rifle? Shot placement is a factory to consider. If I can down a big hog 500 lbs. + with buckshot, it ought to tell you something, eh? So calm downa nd wait for me to accomplish what I have set out to do. I still have a hard time believing about the dog, musta been fractional hits which didn't hit any vitals will the second shot which killed him.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Now Now Blain,
I am the guy who is going to take you hog hunting. We do use .375H&Hs or 45/70s as back up rifles either that or you don't hunt with us. I'm glad we won't have an arguement about this. The only time anybody has ever been in true danger of being bitten slashed or other wise molested by a hog was when using buck shot. As I have previously written about and has been previously refuted by you. By the way the individual whom was nearly perferated will be on the hunt to explain in great detail just how poorly all prevoius buck shot loads have wroked on hogs. We've had some one shot stoppers with buck from that lucky golden B.B. in the head but they generally fail miserably. The above mentioned hog was shot at less than 15' head on in the skull not one pellet penetraited. We are interested to see the reults of your &quot;super load&quot;. I just read an interesting report about a guy shot in the head at 10' with 00 buck. he was killed instantley with a head shot however, not one pellet penetraited into the skull he died from a broken neck from the shot impact. Not unlike some of the head shots I've seen on hogs they tend not to penetrait at all. Now as I've written you I've seen big guns take several rounds to put a hog down but with a .375 penetraition is never the problem and a head shot eqauls dead period end of story.I'll bet you that any .375H&H will out penetrait any shot gun load ever devised. Want to take me up on that one? Why not reread some of your P.H.C novels and see what he thinks about the .375 and it's penetration with a 300 grain solid it is truley awesome.

Edited by - surestrike on 01/16/2002 21:03:48

Edited by - surestrike on 01/16/2002 21:05:48

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Heh, I know a .357 will penetrate more as it also has more energy. Yet I will put it up against my buckshot load for soft target tests, such as wetphone books, newspaper, etc. We will have some fun testing the rounds before we go hog hunting. Also I loved your last e-mail, am about to reply to it shortly.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Some how, we've got to figure out a way to get back on the topic of Grizzly bears, and off of buck shot.

I know that I'm guilty too, but let's try to see some chatter about griz out there.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Ok, I will start it. Why hunt a grizz when you can hunt a bigger coastal brown for the same tag price/limit?

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Good question Blain, and thank you for helping get us back on track.

As a life long Alaskan resident, I have never paid for a guide, and thus do not know about pricing. But I do know that the inland griz are abundant, and easy to access. The coastal griz are a bit less populace, and require different arrangements to access.

This may not be a problem for an out of state hunter, since they have to fly in anyway (as apposed to driving to the hunting area), and therefore would not notice the difference.

If the cost is the same, and your guide can assure you a high percentage of success, then I would definitely go for the coasties.

The cost between an inland griz and a coasty being the same would surprise me though, because there is a huge difference in size, and availability.

In fact, this might be a good place for any of you out there, who have looked into the pricing, to post your results.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

another reason i would hunt an inland as a resident hunter i can take one each year in at least one game management unit. where i believe all coastals are one every four years.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Hi Lamar...long time no hear! Wish I'd a bumped into you at Fletchers, but never seem to see you (or at least I don't see anyone running around with a sign hanging from their neck, saying &quot;Hi, I'm Lamar&quot; :) )

I think of the coasties as once or twice in a life time bears, and prefer to hunt the inlands on a more regular basis, precisely for the reasons you mentioned.

Do you happen to know if there is a price difference for non-residence?

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Blain, I'll stick to the topic of grizzly bears....but I'm not letting you off the hook that easy yet. You still dodged my question. Which book does Capstick say he &quot;wouldn't hesitate to shoot any animal at 10 yards or less with buckshot&quot;???? I have all of his books and several of his videos now to look it up. Thanks.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

It wasn't in a book, it was an article he made in a 1970's issue of guns and ammo.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

HK,

I read the 10 yd. thing regarding leopards only and in a few cases lions. It is in death on the dark continent, leopard chapter I think.
beej
I should have stated most of this above in this thread. but to clarify, he said he used the shotgun only on leopards and occasionaly on lions. on the lions, it was usually to scatter shot over the area he thought they were in, and would then get the rifle. with the leopards, he said that if the leopard was wounded, the animal would pounce usually before he could determine where the wounded animal was coming from. therefore, he would hold the shotgun at his side, with the barrel almost flush with his body to at least deflect the attack. This would allow him to get in a couple more shots without dying or getting mauled.
I just read this book last week, which is th eonly reason I can remember all of this!:)

But, back to grizzly, Thaninator, as I have no experience with the grizz/brown, I will pose a question: Have you any experiencw between teh coastals and inlands? if so, do you notice a temprament difference? Is one more aggressive than another?
beej

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Hey Thaninator - How about the .300 Rem Ultra Mag on Brown Bears??? They have 20% more energy than the .300 win mag and 17% more than the .300 Wby mag. Or do you feel the .338 is still the better choice. In terms of ballistic #'s the 300 UM is as good as the 338 win... However, I know the 338 has heavier bullet weights.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Beej:
I would have to say that the though both variances of griz (coastal and inland) will try to avoid humans as much as possible, it is the inland critter that I would be most leery of.

With them, food is much harder to come by, therefore the chances of coming across an ill tempered animal is higher. Also, as ABW stated earlier, you will often find yourself in too close a proximity to one, with no cover or place to escape...hard to climb a tree in the middle of the tundra :)

On the other hand, the exact opposite situation can cause problems with their coastal cousins. There the cover can be intense...so thick, in fact, that you cannot see through it.

This is were a guy can get in trouble. Stumbling stealthily through the thick brush and coming upon a bear that is on a kill, with cubs, or just scared and/or pissed off.

Though there is plenty of cover, it is too thick to allow escape, and offers very little resistance to an enraged bear.

Just keep in mind, with either type of griz; most attacks occur for simple reasons...the bear feels you are a threat to its food, its cubs, or itself (leaving it no way or time to back out).

If you can avoid any of the above, the chances of being attacked are very slim.

In my case, the bear may have had his eye on the young moose I shot, before I saw it, and therefore felt a bit of a stake in it, or it may have just been trying to see if it could bully me off the carcass. Either way, it wasn't totally sure of itself, or its ownership - thankfully.

Skyhigh:
Can't say that I know much about these new calibers. The 300 ultra sounds like a pretty good weapon. I'm sure it will do a good job up here...though I'd opt for the heavier bullet when ever possible.

I'm not sure why, but for some reason the .300 is a very popular caliber. Most hunters that come up from the lower 48 have this rifle, and they continue to use it with great success up here. But in my mind (befuddled though it may be), I would much prefer the extra power and bullet weight of the .338. I see no down side to it, and have been in many situations where the extra bullet weight was a blessing.

Kinda like buying a 41 mag instead of moving all the way up to the .44 mag…don't understand it, but plenty of people do it.

Isn't there a .338 Ultra as well? Why not go for the heaviest bullet possible, while still maintaining range and accuracy? That bullet weight, along with it's velocity, plays heck with kinetic energy down range.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Skyhigh,
To keep in line with your statment. It gets better than that. Why use a 338 Ultra when they make a 375 Ultra. 300 Gr bullet at over 2800 fps. I'll just stick to the H&H does a great job on just about everything.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Beej,
Just happen to hve a copy of Capsticks book Last Horizons in the chapter named Buckshot- Powerhouse or powderpuff. Page 82last paragraph. &quot;At ten yards I would take on any animal on earth with it (buckshot) except Asian and African Buffalo, Rhino and Elephant.At 60 yards I am firm in my knowledge that I could do more harm to deer with vodoo.&quot; I am firm in my knowledge that if the first time I've seen the Griz and he's coming hard is at ten yard well boys games up becuse he's already got you it's to late. They just move to damn fast.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

HA!!!! See that? Buckshot at 10 yards CAN take a grizz, and that's ony the 2 3/4&quot; shells. The 3 1/2&quot;ers will take the rest, I guess that puts that argument to rest, eh?

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Surestrike. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I can understand capstick's use of buckshot at 10 yards with leopards and the such. However, when a leopard is jumping you and you hit it with buckshot it will deflect the leopard from your direction. I think we are in agreement that it wouldn't deflect a big brown/grizz. they have just a bit more weight than a leopard I would assume! sorry blain, I still don't agree with you.
beej

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Blain:
You need reading glasses my friend...let me isolate Capstick''s line about buck shot on griz for you:

&quot;I am firm in my knowledge that if the first time I've seen the Griz and he's coming hard is at ten yard well boys games up because he's already got you it's to late. They just move to damn fast.&quot;

To anyone reading this, it is clear that Cap is saying that buckshot will not work on griz at 10 yards! Their too damn fast.

How you manage to misinterpret a quote as straight forward as this is beyond me, but I would say that it might be a good indicator of your general blindness on the subject.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - Thaninator on 01/24/2002 14:14:47

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

How you manage to misinterpret this quote is hard for me to understand too.

&quot;&quot;At ten yards I would take on any animal on earth with it (buckshot) except Asian and African Buffalo, Rhino and Elephant&quot;

Do you know what ANY means? Means hippos, lions, bears, moose, all of that.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Blain:
I did not miss that quote, but does this mean that we should ignore the much more specific quote where he was very forceful in mentioning buckshot <u>NOT</u> working on grizzly bears?

In the quote you mention, Cap did generalize (yet did not mention bear specifically), but then he swiftly back pedaled to be more specific about grizzly bears, and how he would <u>NOT</u> use buck shot on them.

Again, in case you've found your glasses...: &quot;I am firm in my knowledge that if the first time I've seen the Griz and he's coming hard is at ten yard well boys games up because he's already got you it's to late. They just move to damn fast.&quot;

In light of the ambiguity of his first quote, and the specificity of his second, I cannot see how anybody could possibly think that Cap was suggesting using buck shot on bear.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Thane, did you ever hear the saying about beating your thumb with a hammer? It feels good when you quit.:)

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

BIG COUNTRY!!!


Well T, I AM going to use buckshot and not just against grizzlies, but against Coastal Brownies as well. I'll show you all the power and the glory!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

BLAIN!!! Can`t wait to see the video. Please allow me the honor of purchasing your first copy! Will you be staying with Thaninator?

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

wow! is this thread really still going. tussey mountain hunter, did you get all that? hope this all helped out. THANE, hi.been layin low latley. lots of other stuff keepin me busy. did finally make it back to fletchers this week after nearly 2 wks. of not shootin. I,ll dig out my &quot;my name is&quot; sign. if you get there when I'm there I usually have my little boy shootin with me. BLAIN; one question, have you found a guide that will aloow you off the airplane with a shotgun in kodiak? lamar.

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Big Country:
LOL...yah, I know, it's just the teacher in me keeps thinking he can get through to the young'un with the willful disposition :)

I'd like to encourage you to become a primary beneficiary of Blain's will. He may not be around long enough to shoot you a copy of the video.

Saw the most peculiar thing in Kodiak, the other day. It was a huge pile of bear scat. Funny thing about it was there were these metallic shards embedded in it. Upon closer examination, I found that they were remnants from a shotgun...worse still, I found a bunch of large, BB like, objects, and some plastic casings in there.

And the most peculiar thing of all was a complete set of human teeth...kinda set in a permanent grimace, as though the person had been scared to death! <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

Lamar:
I don't remember if I've given you my phone number...if not, just e-mail me, and I'll send it to you. Next time you get the urge to go shooting, just give me a call, and I'll try to hook up with you.

Looking forward to meeting you and your son.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

Blain, you sure do brighten up our day with the thought of you coming face to face with a bear with your shotgun.( The smell in the air and the pile on the ground will not be from the bear). My brother in law is in insurance and wants to split the cost of a policy on you with me. All we need is some specifics from you. Who did you find to be the camera man, maybe 2 insurance policies would be better.Keep up the great articles, we need the excitement.

Hunt smart, hunt safe

RE: Grizzly Bears
 

I will voluntere to be the camera man but Thaninator has to take shotgun for me .
op's wrong term
Thaninator has to watch my back .

Mike