hunt booking agents
 

Has anyone heard about Blair's world wide hunting consultants taking $70,000 for a dessert sheep hunt and not providing a hunt or return the money.I'll see if I can link to the thread on accuracy forum .

Here's the link! Click on it and if you want to read all 11 pages go up to the top right and clock on page 1. It's lengthy, but a lot of the posts have quotes from other posts in them that yopu can wade through quickly! Please read and determine for yourself whether you would use the company!


http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...3471078051/p/9

I haven't read it so I don't know the specifics of this particular incident but as a booking agent we personally do not give refunds. We receive a deposit, deduct our commission fee from it and forward the remainder of the deposit to the outfitter then any due balance of a hunt is paid directly to the outfitter by the hunter. We are paid solely by the outfitter and receive no pay what so ever from the hunter so if there are any refunds the outfitter is responsible for all refunds given to a hunter and it states so in our contract.

Yes, but aledgedly blair went beyond that and tacked on a additional $10,000 plus his cut and possibly knew that Larry was not fit to do the hunt when he took the second half of the payment.

SJAdventures---If you haven't even bothered to read any of the thread, IMHO I don't believe it was fair for you to even make your post!!! In your line of business it would behoove you to read the entire 11 pages and then come back here to make a comment, which I hope would be entirely different from the one you have posted. If not, Sir, I guess I would have to lump you right in there with Blair Worldwide Hunting and Heathington!!! Also, you completely contradicted yourself because you stated you take a deposit from the hunter and take your cut "BEFORE" sending the rest to the outfitter. Then you made just the opposite statement saying you're paid by the outfitter and followed that with about the same sarcastic statement Blair is making that it's "right in the contract" to excuse his outright fraud! That "contract BS" is exactly what Blair is saying and he took what appears to be an extra 10K markup over what the outfitter was actually charging. The only difference from what it sounds like you are doing is that Blair also took the other half ($35,000) to complete the hosing while your customers send the outfitter the remaining money!!! QUESTION: Do you or do you not feel that you are responsible for providing an honest outfitter as the main reason for operating your business in order to make your profit. If not, then I would suggest you change your philosophy or find another profession because that's exactly why hunters book through an agent!!! PS: I already went into your website and read your spiel about using you and taking the guesswork out of using an outfitter a hunter knows nothing about. Is that for real or a bunch of BS and if a hunt goes bad or doesn't come about because of the outfitter do you or do you not feel that you at least owe the hunter back your fee for not providing what you represented. I eagerly await your reply and if there isn't one I will definitely start a new thread here in regards to your response or lack thereof! Oh, and after reading your advertisement I see how you can claim you don't get paid by the hunter, but I'm not going back to edit this post and will leave as is.

I'm glad you made your post. I was going to say the same thing.

I'm interested in his response too.

You know these two gentleman have had the opportunity to have a couple of great guides offer their service if they would only provide the landowners tag, to me that would go along way in clearing this up, but they have not and not it looks like the law will be getting involved. I have stated that as a booking agent our clients are our true assets and we can only grow by taking excellent care of them, Blair has done nothing to earn his money and should give it back, but looks like they can debate that fact in Jail.

If I pay a man to do something that he does and it does not happen I will hold that man. The one I payed responsible.
I would kick blair's teeth in ,then give him 24 hours to hand me my $70,000 or he will learn to craw the rest of his life.
I thought people used booking agents so they DON'T get rip off.

That's exactly what booking agents are used for! While I'm at it, please be aware of the free hog hunting advertisement running at the top of this website. It is the same outfit near Gonzalez, TX that the Texas AG had a C&D order against last year for outright fraud perpetrated against a large number of complainants. They changed their name and a slight description of where they are located and now name another town, but it's them. They advertise a "buy one get one free" type of hunt and it always says the special ends at midnight of the day you are on the site. They just keep upping the date at midnight so a person will hurry and thinks he's getting in before the deadline! The other big scam is where they say they have a free drawing once a month for one lucky hunter. However, everyone who has left their address on the website says they get the call that they are the contest winner. I just entered this month and will see if I get the "freebie" phone call. The place is essentially app. 250 acre high fence place, even though they make like they have thousands of low fence hunting. Everything they advertise ends up being a real stretch, if not an outright lie, from the food, animals, charges, etc. I already notified one website that I'm on that was also running the ad and they immediately put a block on that Google ad. I have sent in a PM this afternoon and asked that it be blocked on this site as well.

I did not contradict myself. And I got better things to do in my life than to read 11 pages of something that doesn't involve me. I was not defending anyone in this issue I only stated how as a booking agent we run our business. Our contract states any and all refunds is the sole responsibility of the outfitter. It is there up front and in the open for all clients to read and to decide whether to agree with it and sign it and go on the hunt. Nothing hidden, nothing shady. I do not EVER mark up a hunt. I sell it exactly for the amount the outfitter does if he sells it himself. When we collect a deposit we are collecting a deposit for the outfitter. He pays us out of the deposit. The client does not pay us. I personally to the best of my ability check out every outfitter we agree to sell hunts for. Other than that I don't have to or am I going to defend myself to anyone when I haven't done anything wrong.

Well, you didn't word your post the way you thought you did. You did say you collect the deposit from the hunter, and deduct your fees from that. Isn't the hunter paying you directly?

I don't owe you any kind of explanation.

I didn't say you did, but all we can go by is what you said. Since you don't want to explain. We'll just believe what you said as the truth.

Most outfitter booking agents have never meet the sponsored outfitters nor been to their hunting camps. Most of them have only corresponded through phone and email. Your taking a high risk enough just booking a hunt through an outfitter.

If I were to book a hunt:
1. Talk to the outfitter you plan to hunt with.
2. Check out the outfitters references.
3. Call forest service to insure license is up to date.
4. Call Division of Wildlife to check on reputation or any criminal activities.
5. Get a contract in writing for your deposit.
6. Ask numerous questions so there's no misunderstanding between you and your outfitter on the details of your hunt.

If you have done this then and only then do you have a legitimate complaint. If you haven't done this then get ready to be scammed. It could happen to the best of us. There's all kinds of fly by night hunts out there and myself personally would be very cautious before spending my hard earned money. Good luck.

First off it is not we or we'll it is you. Second: I have 100's upon 100's of references from our past clients that can verify that what I say is the truth and that is all that matters. See ya.:wave:

WE.... as in all of us that read your posts.

I never said you weren't honest. You read way too much into my posts that wasn't there.

SJA---Nobody, including myself, said that you were not honest. However, you aren't helping yourself on this thread that is being read by lots of people who may want to do business with you. You DID NOT answer my question and it was asked just like a person wanting to book a hunt through you would or should ask! I will ask the question once more and how you answer it will either cause a lot of people to either leave you on their list or cross you off as a potential agent they would do business with. Would you or would you not refund your commission to a customer if an outfitter you booked the customer with did not follow through and take that person on the hunt that you sold? Plain and simple question that can be answered with a yes or no and you can expound on either answer if you wish. Thank you for your time! PS: Your statement about the 11 page thread not involving you may be accurate but it should be read because this outfit is going to kill a lot of you in your profession and you're not helping yourself at all on this thread with the attitude you seem to have!

SJA did answer in his first post "NO"
This Jeff Blair is going to kill the booking industry, If I was in that business I would be watching this closely.

I know that he said no refunds and the customer needs to read the contract on his initial response before we actually started having some dialogue. I want to see if he will give a yes or no now based on what I asked with specific reference to selling a hunt he represents that doesn't go forward. He has stated he takes his cut before the rest of the initial deposit is even forwarded on to the outfitter. It's the perfect system to CYA whether the hunt goes on or not and if that money isn't returned to the customer as a good faith measure it tells me he is no better than Blair!!! The only difference is that the customer is getting screwed by two people, rather than one! He might say the outfitter is paying him, but in actuality the hunter is paying him and the outfitter just isn't getting as much on the hunt for having him do a lot of the initial work to attract that customer. By saying that he does all the work to insure the customer has no worries right on his home page of the website he is saying exactly what Blair says on his and that may be the way most advertise to ease the doubts of a prospective customer. When push comes to shove, it is still the personal integrity of the agent you do business with and I can guarantee I would never sign a contract like he mentioned if it specifically says "no refunds". That tells me he is taking no chances and I might as well roll the dice directly with an outfitter if the agent has that type of an attitude and does business that way. In essence, it's BUYER BEWARE when dealing with a booking agent with that in a contract just like it would be dealing direct with the outfitter!!! The whole reason for working with an agent is to lessen that gamble! IMHO he made a big mistake coming on this trhead and making that initial post because no matter what he says now I've made up my mind about him and I would bet that anybody that reads this thread has too!!!

Jeff Blair if guilty is like any other business. You have great booking agents you have bad booking agents, you have great outfitters and you have crooked outfitters, you have great mechanics and you have crooked mechanics, you have great plumbers you have crooked plumbers, etc, etc, etc. Booking agents can be a huge asset if you use the right one or it can be a nightmare if you use the wrong one just like it will be if you use the right outfitter or the wrong outfitter, the right mechanic or the wrong mechanic, etc, etc, etc. If you use a booking agent ask for references for them just like the actual outfitter. If you book a cruise through a travel agency on a Carnival cruise line ship do you actually think that travel agency will be held responsible for the actions of Carnival Cruise Lines during that cruise? That would be like holding the nurse responsible that checked you in at your Dr's office for mal-practice if your Dr does something bad. If the booking agent has fulfilled everything stated they are obligated to fulfill on their signed contract then I am not sure what anyone expects. If I receive a commission FROM THE OUTFITTER and then the outfitter and their hunter has some issue come up between them I am not going to give our commission paid to us BY THE OUTFITTER to anyone. If there is a legitimate refund owed to the hunter by the outfitter then the outfitter is responsible to pay the entire refund and the outfitter not the hunter is out our commission. I cannot vouch for any other booking agency out there but every outfitter our agency sells hunts for is personally checked out to the best of my ability to ensure of their legitimacy, honesty and the quality of their services. I do this by hunting with, visiting or personally calling several of their past hunters and talking in length with them. We sometimes sell hunts for over 70 outfitters located all over the world so it is not logistically possible to hunt with every one of them (honestly I get to hunt with very few of them) or to even visit their operations so references and past history is all we have. I have had outfitters who gave us extremely good services for years but for what ever reason in their personal lives their services turned totally unacceptable without warning. Unfortunately you never know this is going to happen until it does and some one is going to get a unsatisfactory hunt or poor service. Our only recourse is to terminate using that outfitter but for the hunter that isn't much consolation. It is not an easy business to be in especially if you have a conscience and are trying to offer a honest and legitimate service. And you can take this to the bank out side of a very, very, small select few, being a booking agent is not what you would classify as lucrative. Our contract is very clear that our agency is not responsible for any refunds of any kind. If a hunter reads it and signs it then they should not be surprised if such an issue arises. I have gave commissions back to the outfitter when the situation called for them to issue a refund to their hunter but we do not issue refunds to the hunter/s.

Do you realize how ignorant the statement above is?

If a hunt costs the EXACT same amount to a hunter whether they do the booking process through a booking agent or the outfitter directly how do you figure the hunter is paying a fee to the booking agent:confused0024:

Just out of curiosity have you ever used a booking agent yourself? If not then you don't even have a dog in this hunt and you need to leave it alone.

And you, sir, can take your little emoticons and stick them where the sun don't shine because you are showing your true colors just like Blair!!! The customer is getting screwed either way, no matter whether you take your money off the top the way you stated or after the fact by the outfitter. You are still making money on the NON hunt, regardless of whether the customer paid the same amount going through you or direct. All you are doing is trying to justify why it isn't you doing the screwing and why you can keep your money. I was an Investigator in Consumer Protection for over 30 years with the State of Michigan before I retired in 2002, so I know more than a "little" when it comes to how people like you operate, LOL, and yes I have used a booking agent before!!! Thank you for your honesty, or dishonesty, as it sounds just like the responses Blair has made, LOL! In essence, you are saying exactly what I said when I stated BUYER BEWARE, because that's what "no refunds" means! If you are taking no risk in running your business and giving no refunds in any bad deals then that more than sucks. You better go read that 11 page thread and see what all the other reputable agents in your profession are saying! You just lost a lot of business with your posts here because the proper thing would be to at least say that you would give the customer your cut and THEN discontinue doing business with that bad outfitter because the customer is out the money you received as a good faith payment for NOT doing your job in providing the service your home page states. That's exactly what everyone else is saying on that 11 page thread that you don't have time to read and you just cut your throat by even making any posts on this subject on a BB with this many views!!! NOT TOO SMART!!!

I thank you for that Topgun as I feel with all my heart I, my agency and our outfitters have dodge a bullet with you promising not to use our services and we all appreciate that. :happy0001:

As for any one else who has read any of these posts I repeat that I will let my past history speak for my business, integrity and honesty. I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to my business.

I actually think it is some what humorous that you feel that hunting forums contribute to our clientèle that much to begin with. I receive very few new clients from any hunting forums I go to. I come to this one and am a moderator on several others because I enjoy hunting and fishing and talking hunting and fishing with everyone. I promise you I don't spend time here trying to promote my business.

You may think you're not promoting your business.

Your signature says different.


I'm just saying.:confused0024:

Muley Hunter----SJA has just put up another stupid emoticon and a gem of a statement. If he treats me like that, rather than trying to give some polite, logical responses IMHO that more than speaks as to how he operates his business! SJA is obviously talking out the wrong end when he speaks about the power of the net and how many people view all these sites and make their decisions on what they read or pass on to their buddies about doing business with an agent or outfitter! This guy won't give a refund under any circumstance from what he says and then he speaks of honesty and integrity for God's sake! He was sure right on one thing in this thread and that was in the last post where he says he doesn't spend time on here trying to promote his business, LOL!!! He, IMHO, has done a fantastic job of UNPROMOTING his business though!!! I hope he takes a look and sees how many views this little thread has had on here and then you can probably multiply that by 10 for who will also be told about it. I'll leave it to those who read this thread as to whether they will or won't do business with him, but I will say again after reading his posts: "NOT TOO SMART!!!"

Well, he didn't lose me for a customer. I like hunting alone.

I do feel bad for out of state hunters that get screwed though.

Not hard to see here who is showing their true colors. Not that I am surprised. Say what you wish, I will allow my past and my clients do my talking.

Topgun if your dumb enough to read and sign a very clear and non-misleading contract then you have no gripe. All a person has to do is read and not agree with what a contract states and not sign it or not book the hunt end of problem. No one holds a gun on anyone and makes them agree to and sign a contract stating the booking agent will not be responsible for any refunds. How smart does anyone have to be to understand that? It is there in plain simple text, that is why you have contracts.

Now say what ever the heck you want to say and keep on saying I am just like Jeff Blair which to anyone who knows me at all or my business knows that statement really shows off your ignorance. You have just witnessed my last post to this so if you want to really bash me go for it, I will not defend myself any further. God Bless. Oh yea,:wave:

Ok, Can we no get back to topic and spreading the news that we should inform hunters to beware off Jeff Blair and Larry Heathington when it comes to booking hunts as this topic is on many, many fourms with over 20,000 hits. By the way any hunts I book where the outfitter fails to give the hunter thier hunt will get my commission back, no questions asked.

Brian---His last post and the last sentence in your post just said it all---nuff said!!! Thank you!!!

I agree that sjadventures is hurting his booking service more than he thinks.Lots of people come to these sites and look for info on outfitters and booking agents. If he refuses to refund his cut of the money of the hunt, no matter what happens then I dont think any one should use his service! Just the way I feel. Id have a tuff time sleeping at night knowing some one got srewed over and didnt get there hunt, and I profitted from it:evil:

SJadventures is wrong. Hunters do pay the costs of a booking agent. It is true that the cost to the hunter may be the same whether you go through a booking agent or book directly with the outfitter. But there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Booking hunts is a marketing expense. Outfitters that choose to do their own marketing, pay the costs of advertising, brochures, websites, attending outdoor shows, etc. These costs are then included in the cost of the hunt you purchase. Other outfitters choose to use booking agents to do these chores and pay them a commission for doing so. These commissions are then included in the price of the hunt. So one way or another the hunter pays these marketing costs. Any booking agent that tries to tell you differently is blowing smoke you know where.

I have used top notch booking agents on a number of hunts and have been very pleased. However I feel that any booking agent that keeps a commission on a hunt that falls through due to his outfitter's negligence or fraud is, at the very least, unethical regardless of what the fine print of his legal contract may say.

Kodi---I wasn't even going to get into a discussion on that aspect of his posts because the basis of the thread was "refunds" on a bad incident like the one with Blair. However, a good example like you stated was a horseback mulie hunt I went on back in 1994. I talked with a booking agent and he slipped and mentioned the first name of the outfitter he wanted me to book with after he had advertised he worked for free. Yea, right! It was a weird name and I had no problem finding out the name of the outfitter. Long story short, I booked directly and saved $200+ and was able to draw a tag by using that money to pay the higher special fee and went into that draw for the tag. That is the kind of stuff you need to look at because if they tell you or advertise anything else I would be very leery of what else they might not be upfront on! If it wasn't for that, I would not have cost him the booking and would have gone through him. I agree with your last statement 100%, but this guy obviously doesn't----"just read his contract!", as he stated!

Some people just like stirring the pot (take me for example)SJAventures couldn't have explained it any more clear and has not tarnished his reputation at all by arguing with stupid people on the internet when they are so blatently wrong and rude. Any rational person understands what he is saying. :sign0004:

Nice! I wouldn't feel right either. If my business was to lead customers to outfitters and provide them a more confident choice because I say I have looked into it and they got screwed! Thats just not right. Sure the outfitter would be responsible for the majority of the cost but I would feel better giving my cut back since I was the one responsible for booking that outfitter. Who cares what the contract says! People just don't do the right thing these days. It's unfortunate and makes me wonder.

I said I wasn't commenting on this anymore but I guess I have to since kodi and topgun out of lack of correct knowledge have made an incorrect statement at least in regards to my business. Our service is absolutely a free service to hunters. Any outfitter who has signed up with our agency for us to sell hunts for them has to agree up front that any hunt we sell or advertise for them is the same exact brochure or regular price that it would be if the hunter booked the hunt directly with the outfitter. They have to agree up front not to mark the price of any hunt up in trying to recover the commission they pay us. If they will not agree to this then we will not sell hunts for them. It's as simple as that. They either offer their hunts for the same price to our clients as they do to their clients or we refuse to work through them. We advertise as a 100% free service to hunters and the outfitter has to agree with us on this in order for us to do business honestly and my business is honest if it isn't anything else. It absolutely does not cost one cent more to book a hunt through us with any of the outfitters we sell hunts for PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kodi joined in 05.

Just for the record. :confused0024:

Really doesn't matter. After thinking about it I went back and edited my post to remove anything that may have been personal or derogatory. I am not going to get into name calling and accusations I know nothing about. If anyone else wants to do that it is America and they have that right so have at it. I'm not going to stoop that low though. Most understands just because someone can type doesn't always mean they have a clue what they are typing about.

Well, I hope this hasn't hurt your business.

Believe it of not. From the beginning I was trying to help you, because I thought you worded something wrong, and meant something else.

You came back with you don't need to explain anything to me. True, but by explaining to me you explain to everybody who's reading this thread. Which could be potential future customers.

If I was going to deal with someone in your business. I'd like them to have more patience in dealing with problems.

My .02 and i'm done here.

I have a tremendous amount of patience with our clients and that has never been an issue, just not with a couple of people that don't have a clue who wants to tell me how I should or shouldn't run my business. Start your own business and run it exactly how you feel it should be ran and then you will have no complaints. I Have always gotten complimented by our clients on how much time I am willing to spend with them. If anyone judges one's patience by how he tolerates two or three people on a forum who only seem to do nothing but criticize then so be it there's nothing I can do about that. I feel completely confident that anyone with common sense who reads any of the posts in this thread made by pretty much 3 people pertaining to me and my business (which by the way this thread was about Jeff Blair) will see that I was completely out in the open and honest on how I run my business. We do not give refunds personally to clients. We have never tried to hide that and there is an out in the open, straight forward and plain to read clause in our contract stating so up front. If a hunter reads that clause in our contract and it is not acceptable to them or even if they will just ask from the very beginning if we give refunds all they have to do is not book the hunt, it is their choice. The only way we personally ever give a refund is if the client contacts me prior to the deposit being forwarded to the outfitter and wants to cancel their hunt. Then I will return their deposit or shred their deposit check which ever they prefer. I can promise you I am not going to change the way I run my business because 3 people on here don't approve. No one is getting screwed if they agree to it at the start. I promise you all now I am absolutely done with this thread about Jeff Blair.

Ok, one last post. I never mentioned refunds, and don't like being lumped in with those that did.