BeaverJack

No, what I' m sayin' is you have no idea what to complain about. Fellas will complain about stuff that' s their own fault, or at least not a problem with the outfitter at all. Its what gives dudes a bad name. Last year, the drought and overhunting the year before caused 5x5 herd bulls. We saw very few big bulls, and the snow ran the elk outta the high country early. Now I' m sure some nimrods blamed the outfitter for the scarcity of game or the small racks they took home. Or maybe a greenhorn falls off a horse an' hurts his back. After all his hard work, barely makin' ends meet on his mortgage ' cause only a dozen of his hunters drew tags, havin' to sell off a third of his stock cause he couldn' t feed ' em through the winter, getting a second loan so he don' t lose his lodge, the outfitter gets blamed. I' ve seen it a hunnert times. Dudes don' t know what is reasonable to expect of a outfitter or guide, an' they don' t know what goes into settin' up a proper camp. But they sure know how to whine.

BobCo19-65

Rather, my point from my original post is that you could get misinformaton from the site listed that could hurt a good outfitter and using that site exclusively instead of using references as the topic posts suggests may not be the best way to go. People should think a little about using that site and promoting it in the way that the topic post sugest. Your post accusing me of being a booking agent further supports my opinion. If we were on a site such as the one we are talking about was used for your post, I would not have been able to reply back and set the record straight, and the misinformed post would have been out there publically and people may read it as if it were the truth.

schmalts

BJ, answer me these Q' s, You think i dont have a legit complaint? Heres just a small portion of my beef. Tell me if i am just a lazy hunter
1, i booked 3 weeks in advance only. as a " good" outfitter wouldnt you know that the drought had totaly scorched the area that i was hunting on your lease.
2,Wouldnt you already know that the feed was so scarce that the cattle were all sold and the elk left?

3, I am truely a Lymphoma cancer patient, No BS, i can send you pics of my bald ass head if you want the proof,and told him that i was in remission, can hunt as hard as anyone,up to 11k elevation and 10 miles a day easy. and this will be my hunt of a lifetime before i die. Would you still give me your line of BS to slam dunk my downpayment and stick me with a group of 3 guys hunting the same 300ace areas, even though we paid for a 1 on 1?
4, Would you tell me the price is high because of a LOV tag cost in this limited area and then stick me in a whole different unit that was over the counter tags when i get there?
5, three weeks in advance booking, would you already know that the bull quality would be terrible due to drought but still tell stories of all the 300+ bull i will have " multiple opportunities" to stalk?

You know you can say what you want about hunters but not all of us are whiners. Sometimes we really do get the shaft so how are we supposed to warn the fellow hunters in our community. You know i wasnt looking for a 350 bull, just a nice shooter to stalk after. I never saw a bull that was stalkable,nothing over a 250 class animal. I am sure he knew that since he had muzzle loaders pounding all over this place the week before. So quit saying that this website is only unjust reviews, its not.

rather_be_huntin

Now we' re getting to the meat and potatoes. You' re wrong because you' re comparing apples to oranges. This forum is a discussion type forum. Meaning you DO have every chance to respond and I know that when I post. If I was posting on a review type forum I would make damn sure I had my facts straight before I posted it. Besides 99% of bad reviews are things like " The food sucked" , " There was no game" , " My guide couldn' t guide his way outta camp more or less to an elk" . " My guide didn' t know how to call" Those are opinion type responses and really what a review is. Besides if an outfitter could prove someone was handing out misinformation that was comepletely wrong any responsible site administrator would remove the review. Meaning if I accuse an oufitter of not having a license but he does then my review would either be altered or removed if the outfitter pushed it. And if I' m an outfitter you can bet I' m surfing the web seeing what people are saying about me.

BJ you sound like you could hunt with anyone on this board but you are a greenhorn when it comes to business. How good of a guide you are is not determined by your own opinion or how big your pair is. Thats part of it but the other parts is determined by the opinion of your clients. Meaning if you make 99% of your clients happy you' re a damn good guide. If you make 50% of them unhappy you suck. Notice I didn' t say if 99% get a kill or anything like that. Sure eventually you' re going to have to get them on game to make them happy but the point is thats only part of the equation. You can' t be a total a$$hole to your clients and think you' re still a good guide because you' re always on game. Where do you think the term " The customer is always right." came from? Like it or not making the customer HAPPY is the goal because in reality they pay you and are the boss. The best people at any profession that deals with the general public are those who learn to handle people.

I' m not trying to undermine the other attributes to being a good guide. Being good with people is only part of it too but I would say its 50% of the battle. Once someone " likes" you their opinions seem to get much better about you. If you' re a mediocre guide but your client really " likes" you hes going to say you' re a good guide. If he doesn' t " like" you at all hes going to judge you very harshly in his review.

BobCo19-65

OK, I get it now. On forums like this you don' t have to be accurate, or have your facts straight. But on review forums all facts are straight by everyone posting. Sorry, but I still disagree.



schmalts, I am sorry to hear of your misfortunes, and even though we may not see eye to eye on the topic. I wish you well.

rather_be_huntin

Bob you are unbelieveble. I make ONE honest mistake and you make it sound like I go off half cocked on all my posts. You' re worse than my ex-girlfriend. I was man enough apologize for the ONE mistake and you' ve still never acknowledged it. Where I come from when a man apologizes and its not acknowledged the discussion usually ends up outside. You sound like another one of those city types from NY or LA that will use anything to your advantage and to hell with being a man and having some honor. ONE mistake confusing you with another poster on this forum hardly proves your point. Have you ever seen a book or newspaper with a mistake? Besides you still never responded to my point, reviews are OPINION based anyway.

BobCo19-65

rather, what is your point? I am trying to stay on the topic here which is using the topic site mentioned instead of using references. Like I have said in my first post here, I think that site works for some but it doesn' t for me. I think that people should at least think about it' s possible flaws before they promote and use it exclusively without checking references. I think that if the site let the outfitter also post it would be much more useful.

I think that if the outfitter was able to post, it would allow for a more open review of the outfit. Lets face it, if an outfitter is ripping off people and continues to do so, it won' t matter how many times he defends himself on the site before he gets discredited, or at least questioned by potential client . However, in the off chance that someone is providing misinformation, he may be able to defend himself and hopefully call that person out.

BeaverJack

When in the guide' s world, best to let him be hisself. If he don' t like you, or thinks you ain' t gonna like him, its gonna affect his service. The best guides ain' t " people" persons. Some are, but if that means suckin' up to over-educated, over-weight, know-it-alls then chances are the people skills will go by the 3rd day. I reckin' I was happy to be able to pick my clients outta the bunch. The outfitter figured I couldn' t complain too much if he let me pick my poison. Course, I complained anyhoo. Don' t git me wrong, mos' my fellers were great an' we had a very high repeat rate. I never figured out what a feller could do with 4 big trophy bulls. I still ain' t got one hangin' in my own house after all these years. Gonna fix that this fall. Last year we had an' old guide who filled in at the last minute. He didn' t like to walk much. He filled all his hunters with " ride-by" shootings. Some were complainin' after a day in the saddle without seein' elk, an' seein' two other hunters fill their tags with other guides. They sure shut up when they killed bulls. I think that guide had the biggest bull of the season, the only 6x6 that week. He could curse a dude right outta the saddle if he bellyached too much, but he was a good guide.

rather_be_huntin

I agree someone looking at these reviews should be aware that they are the opinion of someone else and should investigate more and check references before making a decision.

SnoBall57

Well, I' ll be the first one to admit that there are certainly clients out there that could complain about something even if they booked with the imaginary " perfect guide" . I know that when operating a guiding business you can' t promise a game animal around every tree, food that appeals to every palate, or accomodations that make every hunter feel right at home. Everyone knows that, for the most part, hunters are a pretty understanding bunch, and if an outfitter is getting a LOT of bad press, then there is probably something fishy going on with his operation. Personally, if I' m checking into an operation, and I see a bad report, I' ll call the person who made the report and make a judgement call for myself. You can usually tell where the problem lies just by talking to both parties.
I will also say that I don' t consider myself one of those fellas that will whine about the least little thing when on a paid hunt, and will make the best of any situation because the time there is " relax" time off of work, and in the wilds. In fact, I' ve posted reports on huntinfo.com about two of my paid hunts over the years, and have had 11 outfitters call or e-mail me either commending or thanking me for the honesty with which I penned those reports. I didn' t bag any game animals on either one of those trips, but gave both outfitters excellent ratings because they did supply what they promised; good meals, experienced guides, reliable transportation to hunting areas, and comfortable bedding. They did not promise a shot at any game, nor did they promise any sightings. But some of the other fellas in camp did complain about lack of game sightings. To each his own. I' m pretty easy to satisfy!

schmalts, I have to say that hearing your story really got my blood boiling. The guide you had should not just lose his guiding privelages, but should also be drawn and quartered and left out for the buzzards. Good luck to you and I hope you get a great hunt to make up for that lousy one.

BJ, I disagree with your assumption that a good guide can' t be a " people person" . A good guide is, indeed, a people person, and has no problem interacting with real, down-to-earth people. But a good guide also knows that it takes all kinds to make the world go ' round, and has to have the patience to deal with those occasional " plastic" people that pop up in the camps. In my book, if I pay for a hunt to relax and enjoy some time away from the rigors of work, and the outfitter starts playing " supervisor" , he and I are going to bang heads! ESPECIALLY since I' m paying HIS wages, and not the other way around! You' ve got the whole routine back-a$$wards, my friend! That' s just not the way it works.