BobCo19-65 you said:
Bob without sites like this you can' t hear both sides of the story. Sure your worries about some unwanted or un deserved bashing might be posted there. In my opinion, these are few and far between. But most people can see through those posts. Just like the advertizing from these guides. You can get the same thing from them but on the other side of the spectrum. It is these guides that need to be exposed. But even the honerable guides only present one sided statements in their adds. You will never see a guide addvertize bad press from a disgrunttled customer. As I said before, my dad operated a fishing charter business for over 15 years so I do know what bad press can do to a guide. I still believe that sites like this can benifit people more than harm anyone.

I have been on quite a number of guided hunts, and have always checked references. Phone bills are cheap compared to the cost of a hunt. Message boards are one thing, but nothing beats actually talking to a bunch of guys that have hunted with the outfitter. Of course, you have to ask questions about things that concern you.

Back in 1994, I was considering booking a moose hunt in Alberta. The first person I called from the outfitter' s reference list, the guy immediately told me, " If you want my advice, don' t go!" I almost hung up right then, thinking I would try a different outfitter, but decided to ask why he didn' t like the hunt. He told me the food was not to his liking, the bed was not comfortable, and he had an argument with the guide. OK, what was it about the food? They ate fresh caught fish one night and he hates fish. Did you get a moose? Yeah, I shot one the second day, but it wasn' t a big one. Did you get a bear? Yeah, I got two of them. I thanked the guy, then called five other persons on the ref list. All of them gave good reports. Some of you might wonder what the whole story was with the first one. I am still wondering.

patrkyhntr making an informed choice is what this is all about. Trying to hear the storries from the dissatisfied and then weighing them against the satisfied storries. Just like you said in your post, some of the dissatisfied and complainers could be for things that actually have no backing to them or to you are actually a benifite [8D].

The one problem that I see with an outfitter' s reference list is just that it is a list prepared from the outfitter. An outfitter that most are trying to avoid, will have no problem in edditting his list to only have favourable comments. Unsolisited comments from sites like listed above has a place in the researching of information. Research all the imformation you can gather then you can make your choice, an educated choice.

Sorry fellers, I cain' t support a site to trash outfitters. The problem is the satisfied ones keep their mouths shut. Only the disgruntled whine. Last season is a perfect example, with a camp full of merry hunters killin' bulls right and left, one guy pulled the trigger on a nice 5x5 the first day, but wasn' t satisfied. He proceeded to belly ache the whole week, how it was his last hunt, how he spent $6,000 coming there for one day' s hunt, how his guide (me) should have found him a 6x6. His tent mate eventually asked him to leave with the next string taking meat out, and I am sure he is whinning still. Do your own homework. Look beyond the success rate to customer satisfaction and percentages of animals you would be satisfied with. Then, make the outfitter and guide aware of your expectations and do your part. But please, don' t trash people' s livlihood on a public site without giving comparitive information. The whinners are always the vocal minority.

By the way, there is a magazine that advertises for outfitters but will only accept them if they submit their annual client list in full and submit to their independent rating system. Can' t remember the name, but I know several outfitters that advertise there, several more that can' t make the cut.

BJ

That was an excellent post, I couldn' t agree with you more, but you' ll always have hunters that no matter what you do it' s not good enough, it' s just their nature.

p.s. I knew you were sandbagging us. lol elknut1

BeaverJack what is wrong with a site that offers itself for independant reviews of guided hunts. Believe me that when I say, My dad was a fishing guide, his own boat and business. I have watched fly by nighters come and go. This people fudge all their facts to support them. I have even seen where they made up clients (from far away, paid them for each referance that came to them). I have also seen (but probually not the one you talk about) magazines or news prints that is suspose to limit the quality of people in it. Well they stated out very well but eventually they limit noone. They are to make money and money talks. What if their greatest contribuator in advertizing was to be restricted. The one I know of deceided to look the other way for the money. The way advertizing is today, it favours only the guiding companies, not the clients, mostly the large over extended that can put forth great sums of money to advertize the successful hunts.

The fly by nighters , I use that term loosely, even 10 years exp. can be one, limit the access to their clients and espically the disgruntled clients. IF you only receive the happy clients, then you are not getting the full story.

I' m sorry, but a guide is not going to display a full list of each years clients because he would be afraid of losing them to people that would undercut his/her prices. I also guess that you have not read that site mentioned above. You stated that it was only a site to trash a guide but I have found many supporting a guide. This is what it asks for:
You are right is saying that this site can have the effect of being one sided and that only the disgruntled would be willing to reply, but this is where it takes all people to make it work. I use these sites to gather unsolisited reviews as I find that magazines, newsprint, TV shows, and advertizing is all one sided and favors the guide.

Beaverjack, What site would that be? the one that trashes outfitters?? if your talking about huntinfo.com i guess you didnt read too many reviews. The only trashing is done on a small percentage of outfitters. Are you afraid of someone posting the truth?

I wern' t referrin' to a site. The magazine is what I promoted. Sites that post unsolicited reviews ain' t scientific or fair. You gotta have controls for yer data to be valid. Malcontents are more vocal than level heads. So your " reviews" would be biased. It could work the other way too. I could log in under 7 differnt names an' tell you how great a outfitter is. The only way to fairly guage an outfitter' s service is to poll ALL his hunters. Ask them questions that will produce qualitative data without them even knowin' it.

North American Hunting Club Resource Directory is one review magazine. They do have a site: http://visitors.huntingclub.com/?promotion=9H01LGIN

Checked out the site and kind of like it. I' m an outfitter and glad to not see our name in the line up for good or bad. I know that our business is buildt on honesty, integrity and word of mouth is the only true concrete reference. I admit that I and my guides make all efforts to make a clients hunt a success by accessing over 200K acres across Texas, but even then I' ve only been skunked with a client once. Did not charge and refused the tip. I have hunted with many outfitters and swapped hunts with others and have had very poor results. I still did not post my opinion of those outfitters, because you just never know what all the circumstances are that made that hunt possible. I have learned what to ask before I decide to travel 3000 mile to hunt. Ask for pictures, web site, letters of reference, number of acres, number of hunters per season and just before you. If you are hunting a place that has no maximum number of animals for harvest, chances are, it is over hunted. When booking a hunt we ask if you are a hunter or a shooter. There is a difference and you should know how to pick your outfitter based on this. Driving around until you see something to shoot, and get out to shoot it is not hunting, its shooting. Setting stands, stalking, getting close to your quarry is hunting. All of this is entertainment and ok with us, but we ask you up front what type of hunt you are after. Remember that as the opportunity to harvest an animal increases so does the price normally. Just like you don' t call an outfitter and request a 200 class deer for $200 dollars. If it was that easy we would all have one like that on our own wall. I' d be pleased to send anyone a questionair as to all the things you should ask before booking a hunt, even with us. Outfitters are suppost to provide a service, not a screwing to support their mis-managed funds. Ask for proof of being a real business " registered with state" (ie. LLC, INC, ...) verses a DBA " Doing Buisness As" or nothing at all except what they can change their name to next week. I' m still a hard working man and hunter and don' t want anyone to be taken advantage of, do to ignorance. Don' t be affraid to ask a question, if you get a bad responce from a question, they probley don' t have an answer or not big enough to admit they don' t know! RED FLAGS.

I' d love to get one of those questionnaires, TC. I don' t have enough money to get cheated by an outfitter, even once. [8D] Thanks for any help!