bigbulls

I have never felt the shot and most times can't remember pulling the trigger but my ears have rang slightly depending on the terrain I was in.

I have to disagree 100% with that statement.

In the field is not where one should be worried about the recoil of a gun. It's on the range where the first time rifle shooter should worry about the recoil.... when he/ she is suppose to be learning good shooting habits with their first center fire rifle. It's on the bench where first time shooters develop flinches, close their eyes at the shot, jerk the trigger, etc... etc... If they develope bad shooting habits on the bench because you gave them too much gun then what good are they going to be inthe field.

IMHO if a person can only shoot 5 rounds from a gun off a bench they don't have any business hunting with that gun. In the field it should only take one but if that one doesn't get there and hit its mark it will take multiple shots.

In contrast my 13 year old son can shoot two boxes from his 30-06 and his shoulder doesn't get tender and can practice much longer. IMO a much better choice for his first center fire rifle than a 300 magnum would have been.

Some people are intemidated by recoil and muzle blast and some people honestly hate recoil. The lady EKM is refering to came right out and said in the very first post that if she purchased a 7mm mag or 300 mag they would definetly get a muzzle brake. So... #1 - both of those calibers kick too hard for her to shoot well and she does not like the recoil from them and #2 - the added muzzle blast of the brake will likely only counter the benefit of the recoil reduction. Just as many people develop bad shooting habits from blast as they do from recoil.

For the first time center fire shooter I would never ever reccomend a magnum. After they have learned to shoot well with womething like a .308, 7mm-08 or .270 then by all means step up to bigger and harder recoiling guns. Aside from this a magnum isn't needed in almost all hunting circumstances.


BTW, I am by no means anti magnum but I am anti over gunning a person unnecessarily.

ELKampMaster

Fortunately, "first time center fire shooters" and "away from home/remote/high altitude elk hunting" seldom go hand in hand and though I'vebeen involved with"elk = first animal killed"afew times. Overall, I don'tencourage it.... IMHO better if novices cut their teeth on deerand then move up, It's not because the shooting is so difficult, but rather the hunt is typically a bitgruelling for a "shooter" that has yet to even be a hunter.For our camp they'llhandle a 30-06 minimum or stay at home or hunt with someone else (and hopefully somewhere else)....

and once again the tally:
================================================== =


What is your current favorite elk cartridge that you personally have actually used to take elk?

5 - 270 Winchester
8 - 30-06 Springfield
1 - 270 Winchester Short Magnum
8 - 7mm Remington Magnum
1 - 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 300 Winchester Short Magnum
5 - 300 Winchester Magnum
1 - 300 Weatherby Magnum
3 - 300 Remington Ultra Magnum
2 - 30-378 WeatherbyMagnum
7 -338 Winchester Magnum
2 - 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 340 Weatherby Magnum
1 - 358 Norma Magnum
2 - 375 Holland & Holland Magnum
1 - 416 Remington Magnum
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gotlost

You are unbelievable EKM! You are a legend in youown mind.

ColoradoElk

Hi Everyone:

I'd hate to invite a friend into camp, have themwound an animaland thenspend two days tracking it and then have to pack it out = Season Over. Heck, the first season in Colorado is only five days to begin with. No time to spend tracking wounded animals.

A poor shot is a poor shot, but you have to admit, the bigger the hammer, the greater the margin of error. If you can shoot a .300, why would you take a .270 as the primary tool? Chuck Hawks shows the .270 at 17 lbs recoil, the .30-06 at 17.6 and the Winnie at 25.9. I'd submit if someone can shoot a .270 well, and is uncomfortable with the Winnie either their shooting style is incorrect or thefirearm is poorly fitted.

From personal experience and hearing too many stories of hunts being ruined/preference points wasted tracking other folks animals, as Lonesome George says, "I drink alone" and do solo pack-in hunts, with my .416. I carry three in the magazine and two spares buthave never needed more than one.

CE

ELKampMaster

Gotlost:
I do have some experiences in some areas and not in others.
I do have a mind and I do speak it....
and don't particularlytrouble myself as towho agrees or who disagrees.
Probably won't be accused of being a sheep.

Some find that offensive.
Othershave found it helpful.
That'sokay.
================================================== =

ColoradoElk:
Been there and done that regarding the tracking thing.... I've got what used to be a short stocked M700 in 270 that in my teens and twentiesbit me more times than any rifle I own (especially on prairie dogs), that is what happens when you take them straight outof the box without asking if they are "set up right for you"-- proper fit is key. The thing is a ***** cat now that the stock has been altered. Assuming one uses some common sense, it puzzles me where the Mags got their "boogie man" status. Since witnessing the difference between mags and their standard calibersat age 18 while on an elk hunt, my boys (twins, 145 pounds back then) informed me they were claiming mytwo 338's for elk and they've never looked back. Darn kids are outshooting their old man.

CE, Your tag line says it all!

In the meantime, these numbers speak for themselves....
================================================== =

What is your current favorite elk cartridge that you personally have actually used to take elk?

5 - 270 Winchester
8 - 30-06 Springfield
1 - 270 Winchester Short Magnum
8 - 7mm Remington Magnum
1 - 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 300 Winchester Short Magnum
5 - 300 Winchester Magnum
1 - 300 Weatherby Magnum
3 - 300 Remington Ultra Magnum
2 - 30-378 WeatherbyMagnum
7 -338 Winchester Magnum
2 - 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 340 Weatherby Magnum
1 - 358 Norma Magnum
2 - 375 Holland & Holland Magnum
1 - 416 Remington Magnum
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Bear Claw

.300 Win Mag. 200 gr Nos Part. Sits them down quick -especiallywhen you shoot themthrough the heart.

As for the sideline discussion, I don't think anyone would disagree that shot placement is key - no matter what you are shooting paunch or non vital hits take a long time to kill, if they do. But, I do offer that shooting is a skill that needs to beexercised to be effective. Sure there are a few folks who have good enough hand-eye coordination to be good shots right away, but I am not one of them. It takes buning powder to learn to shoot well, and that is what will plant an elk in the freezer or on the wall.

When I first got my 300,Ishot factory 180 grs. Not the biggest round by any means. I couldn't hitCanada even if I tried. It took several boxes of shells before I could consistently stay on decent sized paper. Now with my handloadsloaded pretty hot,I zero at 200 yds. and can stay fairly tight at that distance. I'm now working out to 400 yds, but have found that I shoot far better when theshot nearlyknocks me over -ie when I don't fight the shot, I shoot much straighter. This would make me believe that smaller framed people can shoot large cals, if they want to. I would agree that it may not be the best to shoot the big'uns for first timers, but rarely do first timers use their ultimately favorite gun anyway (the general focus of this survey).

Long story short, people should shoot as big as they are comfortable with. For those who likethe added challege and restriction of smaller cals, go for it - butfor the Elks' sake remember the gun's limitations. And I would hardly recommend adding those additional chllenges to a first timer. Unless I missed something Elk hunting isn't easy to begin with, so why add more challeges to the new comer? We should try to help them out before the shot, that way we don't have to help them chase a woulded Elk through the mountains.

ELKampMaster

What is your current favorite elk cartridge that you personally have actually used to take elk?

5 - 270 Winchester
8 - 30-06 Springfield
1 - 270 Winchester Short Magnum
8 - 7mm Remington Magnum
1 - 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 300 Winchester Short Magnum
6 - 300 Winchester Magnum
1 - 300 Weatherby Magnum
3 - 300 Remington Ultra Magnum
2 - 30-378 WeatherbyMagnum
7 -338 Winchester Magnum
2 - 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 340 Weatherby Magnum
1 - 358 Norma Magnum
2 - 375 Holland & Holland Magnum
1 - 416 Remington Magnum
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ShatoDavis

And that is your right. I agree that the range is where good shooting skills should be perfected. I disagree with you wholeheartedly that you should be able to shoot multiple boxes of shells before your shoulder get tender. I quarantee you that I can't even shoot one box of shells through my 280 which is a "non Magnum" before my shoulder gets sore and flinches stop. Besides the barrels heat up and groups deteriate after the first five or so. The point I was trying to make is that if you can take five shots before your form starts to faulter, take five shots and quit for the day. Clean your weapon and return to the range a little later.

Granted its better to teach shooting skills with a light kicker. A shooters skills should be refined and have a very good knowledge of how to align the sights, breathe, squeeze tthe trigger, and follow through prior to shooting magnums. But, I will go a step further and say that thesame exact thing can be said about the 270, 30-06, 308, 7mm-08 etc. I have seen someunbelievable flinches, trigger jerks, closed eyes, and worse with shooters shooting a 243.

My point wasn't that its okay to go out and get the $hiet muslim kicked out of you. My point was: the shooter needs to realize that there is a fair amount of felt recoil, that he/she doesn't have to shoot it all day long, shoot until it becomes uncomfortable and stop for the day, and when you get in the field you won't feel it anyway. If you go intoit with those points in mind the magnums don't seem nearly as untameable.

BTW: my boywas taught the proper shooting techniqueswith a 22. Like most of us. It was his idea to shoot the 300 win. not mine. My friends and I didn't act like it was any big deal so neither did he. Heshot a sub 3/4 inchfive shoot group. Not bad for the first time shooting a centerfire rifle. After five shots he said that his shoulder was a little tender.I told him to stop for the day. That its when you get sore that you start learning bad habits. That was a couple of years ago, and now he has fallen in love with a 270 wsm. Killed a nice 5 x6 whitetail this last fall.

EKM:
my dad killed a 5x6 Elk last fall with a 338 ultra.

ColdHunter

338 RUM it putsthe hurt on them

ELKampMaster

Sorry Shato, can't count second hand users..... though I appreciate the thought!
================================================== =

What is your current favorite elk cartridge that you personally have actually used to take elk?

5 - 270 Winchester
8 - 30-06 Springfield
1 - 270 Winchester Short Magnum
8 - 7mm Remington Magnum
1 - 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 300 Winchester Short Magnum
6 - 300 Winchester Magnum
1 - 300 Weatherby Magnum
3 - 300 Remington Ultra Magnum
2 - 30-378 WeatherbyMagnum
7 -338 Winchester Magnum
3 - 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
1 - 340 Weatherby Magnum
1 - 358 Norma Magnum
2 - 375 Holland & Holland Magnum
1 - 416 Remington Magnum
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