HuntElk4Fun

I know alot of us on here sent Wyoming letters regarding the new $40 point system for antelope, mulies and elk, plus the $75 for moose/sheep. I won't go into detail since the proposal is at http://gf.state.wy.us

I heard through the grapevine (we have a source at the G&F) that the hate mail was received and the G&F recommended lowering it to $30 and $50. Now the G&F Commissionis set on their own system(keep in mind, they are more of a political/governing body and not the true G&F). This is NOT final yet, but it's close from what we've heard. As a Wyoming native, since moved out of state, I'm embarrassed and ducking my head in disgust of Wyoming's actions. Here it the most likely new system:

75% of tags goto to the point system
25% of tags open draw

$30 - Antelope Point
$40 - Deer Point
$50 - Elk Point
$75 - Moose Point
$100 - Sheep Point

I'm disgusted and amazed. It hurts to know that Wyoming has officially made the move to a "rich man's" state. What worries me is will other states follow with pathetic point systems like this?

I hope if this does become official, anyone who hunts or might hunt in Wyoming writes another letter of disgust to the G&F Commission!
[:'(][:'(][:'(]

RandyA

Doesn't it mean if you don't apply for a license you have to buy a point to stay in your level of point totals? You don't have to buy the point in addition to the license. It just buys a point when you don't want to lay out all the cash for a licenseor can't make the trip that particular fall.



















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What preference points are

* Origin: Wyoming's preference point system was instituted by the Legislature in 1994 specifically for hard-to-draw moose and bighorn sheep hunting licenses. Lawmakers at the time wanted to forestall the prospect of one applicant drawing two or more moose or sheep licenses through the Game and Fish lottery system before another applicant drew just one.

* Objective: The idea is to increase the odds for people who come up empty-handed in the draw year after year. The system awards each unsuccessful moose and bighorn sheep license a point. The agency then conducts a drawing from a pool of hunters with the most points.

What's next for hunters
* New regulations: Nonresident applicants would have the choice of either applying for a license or just buying the preference point. If the applicant is unsuccessful for his or her first choice in the license drawing, he or she would receive a refund check less the preference points and application fees. The point system would not apply to second and third choices, reduced-price doe/fawn deer and antelope or cow/calf elk licenses, nor to all applicants in the second drawing held in July.

* Costs: The Game and Fish Commission set the price of nonresident elk, deer and antelope preference points at $50 for elk, $40 for deer and $30 for antelope for regular and special licenses, and $10 for youth licenses.

RAWLINS -- The chances for longtime nonresident hunters to draw elk, deer and antelope licenses in highly coveted hunt areas got a little better under new regulations approved by the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission here last week.

The commission approved changes to the agency's regulations that govern the issuance of licenses in order to institute the preference point changes voted into law by the 2005 Legislature.

For the first time ever, nonresident applicants will have the opportunity in 2005 to apply for preference points for elk, deer and antelope.

Nonresidents would actually begin accumulating preference points after the 2006 limited-quota drawings for elk, antelope and deer, said Game and Fish Chief Fiscal Officer Ron Arnold. He said hunters will actually see the point advantage in the 2007 draws.

The commission decided to give nonresident hunters the option of buying preference points rather than make participation mandatory.

The commission rejected requests from the outfitting industry to wait for a special legislative task force's anticipated recommendations concerning possible "set-aside" licenses for outfitters before proceeding with the nonresident preference point system.

They also asked the seven-member commission to not institute preference points for special licenses.

The state's outfitting industry put forth a proposal to create a "closed license pool," more commonly known as set-aside licenses, of 2,900 elk hunting licenses for licensed outfitters each season. The task force met Wednesday and voted to support further discussion of the topic at a later date.

"In light of this task force, we'd like to see the commission hold off on preference points, at least on the special draw, until the task force recommendations," said Todd Stevie with the Sublette County Outfitters Association. "Once you get a point, you can't take it away."

Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association member Terry Pollard of Pinedale urged the commission to exclude special licenses and institute nonresident preference points for regular licenses only.

Special nonresident antelope, deer and elk are those licenses that have fees greater than those of regular nonresident antelope, deer and elk licenses.

State law provides for a separate nonresident drawing with a specific percentage of nonresident quotas designated for only those applicants paying higher license fees, in this case 25 percent.

The commission voted to have the nonresident preference points apply to the special draw as well as the regular draw.

Pollard said the original intent of the special draw legislation was for it to be an "outfitter-client draw" only.

"The draw is very good now for special licenses, especially elk, and I think you're confusing the issue and maybe double-dipping a little bit," he said.

"We're drawing pretty well right now on the high end, and that special license price increase (for preference points) will be all right for a few years," he said. "The problem is, you'll draw real good the first year and then get nothing the second year (with preference points). If I want to take 20 hunters, I'll have to put in 40 (license applications) just to cover myself."

But David Gowdy with the Wyoming Wildlife Federation countered that his membership is concerned about hunters getting "priced-out" of hunting in Wyoming.

"Set-aside favors the wealthy over non-wealthy... It's a slippery slope we don't want to go down," he said.

"The majority of special-license (hunters) don't use outfitters... The special license was never intended to be a set-aside license," Gowdy said. "Residents don't like it and don't want it, and if you go down that road again, we will fight it."

Paying for points

The department's initial draft rules recommended setting the preference points for regular and special nonresident antelope, deer and elk licenses at $40. The commission approved $50 for an elk preference point, $40 for deer and $30 for antelope.

The agency also recommended increasing the fee for preference points for nonresident bighorn sheep and moose from $7 to $75. But the agency later scaled back that fee recommendation to $50 for the two species, based in part on the 359 public comments received on the rules, mostly from nonresident hunters.

"They thought that jump from $7 to $75 was a bit too high," Arnold said. "Fifty dollars is a reasonable amount for a pretty prime species. These are pretty sought-after licenses, and (the fee) is pretty fair considering the quality of the herds in Wyoming."

Commissioner Jerry Galles said nonresident hunters who participate should have to pay.

"This is a tool for us to make additional funds, and I view it as that," he said. "The additional monies for the department will go to work for our other underfunded programs. And I think it would also help the outfitters because it would bring (their clients) one step close to having a license even though they pay the additional (preference point fee)."

As required by the statute for moose and bighorn sheep licenses, the commission decided to also designate 75 percent of the nonresident quota for elk, deer and antelope to a preference point drawing and 25 percent to a random drawing.

Arnold said that would encourage greater youth participation and give first-time hunters a chance at licenses.

Under the new system, an applicant's points would be forfeited if the hunter fails to purchase preference points for two consecutive years on his first choice only.

The commission voted down a motion by Commissioner Clark Allan to suspend the implementation of preference points in regard to special nonresident licenses for up to one year and wait for any task force recommendations or possible proposed legislation out of committee.

"Preference point systems build momentum," Allan said. "Once we go down that road and people pay for them, it will be tough to back up and take that away. But if we hold off until the task force makes recommendations or it winds up being legislated ... it will be easy to add those preference points later."

But Commissioner Clifford Kirk said there's not a lot of difference between special and regular nonresident licenses. "I don't see the task force doing anything that will probably affect us," he said.

HuntElk4Fun

From the article: "If the applicant is unsuccessful for his or her first choice in the license drawing, he or she would receive a refund check less the preference points and application fees."

They get your money for the point no matter what. That's the sickening part to me. You have to send them $500 (elk), they get to keep it for a while, collect the interest, etc. I would be okay with it if you sent them your money, they keep it, you get a point for free. You don't want to send $500, fine, pay $50 for your point. Wyoming is one of the few states that require you to send ALL themoney in. Others just charge successful candidates. To me, they are milking every penny they can from us.

More--
But David Gowdy with the Wyoming Wildlife Federation countered that his membership is concerned about hunters getting "priced-out" of hunting in Wyoming.
"Set-aside favors the wealthy over non-wealthy... It's a slippery slope we don't want to go down," he said.
"Commissioner Jerry Galles said nonresident hunters who participate should have to pay."

I can tell you that Mr. Galles will be getting a letter personally from me breaking down how they have created a rich man's sport in Wyoming.

TXhighrack

I plan on buying preference points for moose and muledeer only. I'm not going to put in for the actual draw because I dont want to draw either tag for awhile. So this point system works very well for me. Even if it takes several years before I draw the tag I want, its still a cheap moose hunt.

bullcan

CO requires you to send the whole amount for a tag also, even if you are just applying for a point. However they just keep 3 dollars of your money for the point, not 30-100.

ShatoDavis

I understand your frustration. But consider this, you are in essence complaining about the fee for the point correct. The issue of sending money in and them keeping it for awhile is moot. Its the price you pay for a chance. So you're basically complaining about paying $50 for a preference point on an elk.

What in this day and age can you do for $50? Take the wife out to dinner? $50-75.

Take the kids to the show? Not if you buy sodas and popcorn.

Fill up your truck? Nope, cost me $63.75 this morning.

Pay the cable bill this month so you can watch the outdoor channel? Nope, $58.

Play a round of golf? Not if you have to buy the beers at the turn (stupid double bogey on 9). My point is that $50 isn't significant in the larger scheme of things.

huntinwv

elk4fun, I understand what you are saying especially if you are a resident. I could not imagine paying $50 (x) number of years.

shato, $50 is not alot of money these days, but if this went on for several years it adds up quick. A hunter could buy several elk calls and some scent elimanation products with $50. I won't apply there when CO only keeps like $3.

Colorado Bob

Rumor has it that Colorado is thinking of also inceasing the cost of a preference point. Nothing definite--just a rumor I've heard. My question is what to do with the 6 moose point I have in WY----give upor keep sluggin it out. I've tried to read the data at the WY website but I can't fiqure it out. Can someone look & see if I will draw a bull tag in Unit 23 with 6.

HuntElk4Fun

Shato-

I'm complaining how steep they all are. Plus, I put in for all of the big 3, so that's $120/yr, my boys put in, that's $30 x 2 (luckily it's $10 for youth) and my wife does every now and then for Elk. I potentially will be shelling out $230 just to buy points. I don't want them. The system before worked fine IMO. You drew deer on average every 3rd year, Elk about the same.

I understand it costs me $230 to take my family to a theme park for one day! That's not the point. I only have so much money to go around. $230 is almost a deer tag in Wyoming, now it's just for points. I hunt Utah, Wyo. and Idaho based on what I draw, etc. I'll be tempted to save my point money and go somewhere else. Plain and simple, it will slowly weed only lower and middle class hunters or at least give a preference to those who think $50 here and there is pocket change. That's what irritates me.

Colorado Bob-

I feel your frustration. I know ALOT of people with 6-7 points. Keep in mind, Wyoming sets asides 75% of the moose tags for people with the most preference points. I think max is 11. 23 is a tough unit to draw, so if I read it right, you will have to wait until all 11's draw, then 10's, etc. down the line or until you build up enough to end up at max.

ShatoDavis

hunt4fun,

I know all too well the feeling of having only so much money to spread around. I agree with you in essence. I hope you didn't take my analogy as an attack in any way. Hunting is becoming an expensive hobby that is for certain. I know that when we grew up it was considered a birth right, but things are changing. I don't think that its right but it is a fact. I know that a lot of folks depend on wild game to support their families. Thats the way it was when I grew up. If we didn't fill the freezer with venison in the fall it was going to be a lean winter no doubt. I fear that these tighter regulations and increased cost will force otherwise law abiding citizens into unethical practices. I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. Lord knows, I don't have the answers.