Honestly, if you want carbons the Carbon Epics are cheap and strait enough for me to stack touching all of them at 20 yards, 2-3" groups at 30 yards, and 4-5" groups at 40 yards. That is enough to kill a deer every time IMHO, as well as be competitive in 3D. I would be willing to bet that most of the people that pay $75-$140 for a dozen high end carbons/ACC's, don't have the shooting abilities to take advantage of their extra straitness. Some certainly do I am sure but 99.999% including myself cannot shoot that consistent. That is why I have Gold Tip XT's.