i have a brand new summit viper. i also bought a used ol man this year - 3 yrs old. the ol man wins hands down. it climbs much better than the summit, just as quiet, and folds flat for hauling. the mesh seat is actually comfortable, and you just feel like you have a lot more angles out of it. my neighbor has used both of them also when we go hunting together and his statement was he likes the ol man 5 times better than the summit. that's my .02. next year i'm going to try the tree suit - what could be lighter than that, and it will allow me to get over some branches if i've installed steps. i'm going to get the climbimg base with it to test it also. if i like it i'll sell you my summit for a great deal.