RE: i hate climbers
I'm not a big fan of climbers either--but for different reasons. I've owned several and currently have an ol'man vision that I use primarily for all-day hunts. My chief complaints are:
1.) the noise made getting them attached to the tree,
2.) the ridiculous angle that you must start with so that (hopefully) it will be level when you reach hunting altitude,
3.) the only trees you can use are telephone type trees with little or no screening branches,
4.) you must climb all the way down -- and then all the way back up if for any reason you need to get down -- this also applies to leaving the stand overnight, and
5.) knowing that it can occassionally slide down the tree quicker than you want on slick trees.
For these reasons, I save it just for the all-day sits where my comfort in my fixed position stands won't allow me to stay there.