that may be it...my patterns too tight and im leading too much.....because when i hit them i mess them up pretty good....and the ones i hit i dont have time to think about leading....im squeezing right on or barely infront of the bird....ill try that next time....im shooting a modified barrel..no choke its a choked barrel in an old winchester model 50 semi......i have a mossberg 500....but i dont think i own improved chokes....in the house we have 3 mossbergs and not one improved choke....i got 100 mods..an improved mod....i think its between full and mod.....and full and xtra fulls.....the birds are starting to stay farther out so the mod will come in handy.....maybe ill hit a piece of cardboard and see what my pattern looks like sometime soon.....but you guys got me thinking....maybe it is tight and im leading more then i need...ill try it next time...im shooting remington sport loads in 7.5.....cheap loads...but they have everything the better loads have....they even have the piston wad...not just a wadcup like the federal cheap loads i had.....they seem better then the federal cheap loads i bought.....until my shooting improves im not buying good shells to shoot into the sky.....thats kinda a waste....i mean im sure the pattern a bit better....but i need to get my hitting the birds down a little better.....ill try less lead next time....makes alot of sense being i got birds at 25-30yds....and they arent flying overly fast...just cruising along....thanx guys.....ill let you know what happens friday and saturday......hope my birds are still there.....they will be unless a new field gets cut.....but i know the farmer that owns 90% of the corn in the township.....so i should be set....if the birds arent there ill talk to him....he knows where to send me...