t roy, I thought I'd give you a heads up, I don't know if your looking at muzzleloaders, but, Knight just had their big overstock auction. They sold 700 guns and they sold them well below retail price. You may be able to get you a good deal on a muzzleloader. For instance if you see a Disc Extreme .45, Stainless, and Wood, jew them down to $300.00 it's a $650.00 gun but they will still be making money.