Your right 338,

No matter the size of the caliber it does them no good if the shot is bad. And I will admit most magnum calibers are alot more helpful if it is a bad shot. Might even knock the animal down long enough for a secound shot.
I wasn't fair to the people who can shoot magnums really well, becuase myself I am one too.

Bugle published and article a while back and the author used the Elmer Keith raking shot as an example of why you should use a magnum over a standard cartrigde. He actually said if you were on the last day of the hunt and a bull had its rump to you then a magnum could take it down. While a hip shot on a elk is devastating on mobility I could not believe they were letting the public view articles of that quality. Its pretty easy just to hit meat on a elk rump than bone.

I know now that's not what you meant by your post. And understand where you were coming from. I see something about ify shots and it stirs me.

You and elkampmaster are right if the man can't shoot any gun well I'd rather see him shoot something with devastating power. I've seen people shoot so bad they were better off with hand grenades. I prefer the patient hunters that will say well if he don't give me the shot I want to take then oh well not going to chance it.

The funny thing is it don't cost that much to practice so you can atleast shoot decent. That's the real disappointment to guiding or seeing hunters missing in the field.