Big Al, I find the the Winchester copper-plated, the Nitro-Hevi and Remington Hevi shot all shoot pretty well out of my 870 as long as I stay away from the 4's, I tried the Rhino choke today and it beat the Ventilator, not by much but it did throw a little tighter pattern, I was shooting Nitro Hevi-Shot today, #5's, 2 1/4oz loads, I have the pics of my pattern posted on another thread here, check them out.