The only time I use either of these two calls when i'm dealing with a flock situation targeting the hens and not the gobbler!Obviously the hens will lead him in and the idea is to get those ladies interested in me.I primarily use this call in tight situations with some leaf scratching.Like BT I dont get many responses as far as a gobble but thats not primarily what I'm targeting using this particular part of their vocabulary, but I have worked hens into a frenzy and been surrounded by a flock alot more than once as a result of it!