Guys I am the OP, I have been working and have not had a chance to read all your replies. Sorry for the rant, I am not an expert shot by any means and that is one reason why I reload. But it rankles me that these gun experts say they can get MOA with factory ammo and using the same ammo off a lead sled with no wind I get 2-3 inch groups. With my reloads I can get both my Weatherby and Ruger American to shoot 1.25 -1.75 three shot groups at 100 yards, but this is with shooting many different loads. With other rifles I and my Father own I can shoot MOA at 100 which is not great but plenty good for what we hunt. Maybe I am expecting to much from a factory rifle.