I know Hal likes to go by the shot being able to penetrate at least 1.5" in a gelatin mass for max killing range, but I don't agree with that. And I have told him that myself. Going by that max range on a Hevi-13 #7 load is right at 42yds I believe. That's crazy when I myself have shot one at I know at least 48yds and probably more like 50yds, and remember I was a bowhunter for years and I also am a pattern nut, so I know what 40yds is to t by taping it so much. I know that the majority of all my shot did to that bird at 50yds. Heck it penetrated as good as lead 4's probably would have done. But Hal said that I believe a TSS #8 is good to 85yds.