wow....they look great......i got a mold from the bay that said 50 cal...it was a 45-70 bullet .459 405grain......they work great in my .50 with a crushed rib sabot so it work out great lol ...they look alittle like those but not groved as much....i don't have any whites a .451 is a .45cal....what size bullet can you lube and put down? I've never shot a bear bullet other than a r.e.a.l or maxi hunter....really cool looking bullets...longer than a 45-70?...ed