thanks for responding but what is a shot card and like you already mentioned it could very well be out of my control. I have never used anything but sabots and possibly I may just send these to cayuad as he has what it takes. I cant get better accuracy from the .452 300 deep curl or .430 300 XTP and jacketed hydra con 300. 110 grains of blackhorn 209 regular cci 209 w/ o-ring under the primer. I have an excellent set up and all these work very nicely snuggled inside of an mmp short black. Thanks sabotloader, I have been following your many post for along time now and I have learned so much. i just decided to get involved so I joined