Grouse the fact is your bad mouthing a barnes 195 gr bullet.from reading posts that you were involved in you clearly stated they were the knight red hots. yes made by Barnes. problem is they were made with the little tiny hollow point that indeed did not expand. the .195 expander MZ has a hollow point the same size as a .200 gr Lehigh. your bad mouthing the wrong bullet. i have tried to tell you this in the past, but as usual you ignore that fact completely, why? because you want to toot your lil horn about the Lehighs.a 200 sst,xtp no contest next to a .195 gr expander bullet. not even in the same league.SCHILL Away just do it elsewhere!!