Mulie that review i posted on this was pretty darn clear. the first batch he received was garbage. later he received another batch and clearly stated it trumped 777.it was equal or greater as far as 777 velocities and needed no swabbing after every shot.the Quality control on it during that time was obviously not good just like it's still not good where Shockeys/APP is concerned. let's hope Alliant learned there lessons from the previous owners mistakes and refined it to do what they indeed say it will.Alliant has a good reputation in the powder world.again let's just sit back and see. we all may be pleasingly surprised.. Ray