HuntingNet.com Forums - View Single Post - 9mm, .38, .357 rumor-mill/opinion question?

07-18-2011 | 03:17 PM

#17

Nomercy448

Nontypical Buck

Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 3,938

Likes: 3

From: Kansas

Quote:

Originally Posted by harter66

You've chosen only a single bullet weight to illistraight a point. Using that method 1 could illistraight that a 30-06 carries more energy than a 458 WM if you only compared 165s I'm sure its true,beyond 100 yards.

Not correct. I didn't pick anything. I pointed out that the common belief that the 9mm is substantially weaker than a .38spcl is incorrect. I supported that opinion based on factual evidence, comparing similar bullet weights and barrel lengths. Then one of the respondants brought ballisticsbytheinch.com into the mix, which actually supports the fact that 9mm on average is actually MORE POWERFUL than the .38spcl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harter66

Standard loads in a 38 are 125,158 at 18,000 psi, 9mm's are 115,124/5,147 at 35,000 psi. The 9mm burns faster powders than the 38 for a longer sustained peak. You said yourself in rifles over 18" the 38 gets the edge, slower powder longer peak. Heavier bullet same speed more energy. Step up to the heavier bullets and you will find that the 9mm is just about peaked out for energy return around 130gr the 38 is just getting started but actually peaks at about 150grs.

If you'll read my post again, as well as take a look at the data supplied by the other respondant, I never said that the .38spcl surpasses the 9mm IN ANY BARREL LENGTH, and the data SHOWS that in fact, the 9mm IS SUPERIOR IN ALL BARREL LENGTHS. And again, you'll note that I acknowledge the extremely limited case capacity of the 9mm, which explains why all of my reloading manuals suggest approx 30% LESS powder charge for 147grn loads vs 115grn loads. And again, as I've stated over and over in this post, the longer the bullet, the more powder it displaces, and the less resultant energy the 9mm will have. The .38spcl is NOT capacity limited, therefore is able to handle heavier bullets without tailing off on energy. However, the 9mm STARTS OUT HIGHER THAN THE .38SPCL, then tails down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harter66

You've also compared carbines to revolvers and pistols. My carbine demonstrates a 400fps gain over my 6" revolver in nearly every load tried,more in some. The original discourse was 9mm vs 38 in personal defense w/comparable guns and loads,using rifle data doesn't support that,nor does +p examples.

No, in fact, the data supplied by the website DOES NOT compare carbines with revolvers and pistols. The experiment compares a closed breech T/C Contender with custom built barrels that were LITERALLY sawn down 1" at a time. Then they also include data for REAL WORLD WEAPONS (multiple weapon models/designs) and list the barrel length for each. Basically, they provide close breech velocities for different barrel lengths in 1" increments from 3" to 18". My statistical evaluation classified each different barrel length, evaluating ONLY on an apples to apples basis. Again, the evidence I presented specifically says "FOR EVERY BARREL LENGTH, THE 9MM EXHIBITS MORE ENERGY THAN THE .38SPCL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harter66

The 38 and 9mm w/in their primes are so close it doesn't matter.

This was my point exactly. My original post was to derived from a conversation I had with some "old timers" at our range (awful lippy for shooting FREE on MY range). The old gun guys were suggesting that the .38spcl was far superior to the 9mm in terms of energy, which obviously isn't true. Again, at worst, they're equal, but in reality, more often than not, the 9mm will have MORE energy (supported by 20/22 experiments comparing 10 loads over 22 matched barrel lengths).

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