the bullet in the middle of pic is an 405gr, .459, they are for the 45-70. planning on trying them out of my 50 (since I cast sized to 451) and my 45cal sized to 454. the orange mmp sabot or I think the crushed rib harvester will work on standard jacked 457 - 458. I did some test a few years ago on the ones I make unsized. just an shade too big for the sabot.