Well not to be bias but from what I've seen them do on game I'm surprised they haven't been recalled back to the factory. That next best thing or the new fad of solid copper is a misleading one so far. So far I've only had three clients use solids and they haven't expanded like they were supposed to, the elk took longer to go down and I just don't think the expansion and that initial punch is happening like you would get normally. Good luck I'll cast my own bullets before joining the ranks of the XXX.