Uncle Matt, Got your PM, Ill shoot you over one when I have a few more minutes. I actually hunted Saline County a in 2008 for shotgun season and couldnt believe the amount of deer I saw. Granted it was a large chunk of private land but I think I saw 60 deer opening morning and 8 bucks that were 8 points or better. Time of my life. This from a guy that hunts overhunted Michigan land where if I see a 4 pt buck in a 4 day trip then Im happy. Thanks for the info on Johnson county. If I don't draw my permits for public land and don't get acccess to the land I hunted in 2008 I may look into public land in Shawnee. Since I don't live down there I may look for some advice. I live in downtown Chicago so getting a deer isn't always first priority, just getting somewhere that I don't hear trains, planes and cars all the time is what really matters. Do you hunt out of Marion? I thought I saw in one of your posts a ways back that you were in that general area. Ill shoot you over a PM tomorrow when I have a little bit of time.