I have a pack laying around that I have been scared to use for the last 2 years although they perform well on foam.. The penetration or lack of with them has kept them out of the woods. I might try this year (I am shooting a heavier arrow) but not more then 20 yrds. If I chicken out I still have RazorTricks in the quiver. I shoot 60lbs 28'' Guardian and 415gr arrows.