Chuck7, Your a better shot than I! Growing up if I was told I could put a group in a pie plate at 100 yards, I was ready to hunt. Now I say at100 yards if you can fit your group in the palm of your hand, you are ready to go. My slug gun holes are already the size of a quarter! I take the size of a deers heart and if I can consistantly hit that on a target then I am ready to hunt. My motto though "Ain small, Miss small!" Good points thought Chuck, fora beginner they are ones to live by.