I should have put #4 I still shoot them and like them. Very accurate. I have never had any issue with penetration although I have never shot a big deer. Ou of the deer shot in the vitals only one ran and that was only about 25 yds. The other 3 bang flopped. I am trying some of Hornady's BTSP for my .243 as the sst is not a boat tail. My Dad is working on some loads for those right now.