Rsb, your data is a pathetic attempt to hide the continual downhill slide of the last 5 years. Last year fewer 2.5's were killed then previously and that only goes to show there are NOT more and bigger bucks. Its a failed program and bunching up data in an attempt to decieve will be pointed out, and you should know that by now, so why even bother? Im sure we all appreciate your views, but would like a bit more of an honest attempt at debate from you without all the "shenanigans" (LOL).

"I really think that hunters as a whole in this state need social reengineering if you will."

Not hardly. That may be the case among a few of your friends? I know noone like that. I knowpeople who see real problems and what real solutions. Not false promises andsmokeblown.

"While I do agree with some that the PGC's deer program has failed in some areas. This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how. Micromanaging areas with less deer would be very difficult at best."

Not when complete wmus for the most part are far below carryingcapacity and many of which alsoare rated as low human conflict even by pgcs obtuse standards.

"However, I must disagree with the people saying our deer herd is worse off now than it was before all of this took place. Yes, we have fewer deer now, but we also have healthier deer and more deer carrying impressive headgear."

Or so youve been told. Pgcs own data says otherwise. My observations and those of mostI know say otherwise. The local buck contests say otherwise.Pgcs own latestfailed scoring session (first in six years!) says otherwise.... There are more big buck PERCENTAGEWISE, but percentagewise gains us nothing. Numberswise we have fewer than previously.

"There is not a guy alive who hunts that doesn't want to see bigger racks. Leaving the small bucks walk will only improve your chances."

Idont shoot ar minimums. Im selective. Hasnt a thing to do withme approving or not approving of the unwarranteddeer slaughter.

"We are seeing a decline in hunter recruitment. It's been happening before the new deer management program started."

From 2001 to 2006 our numbers have declined at OVER DOUBLE the national average. The national average according to usfws was 4% per year in that time period. Ours was 10%. HOw you people can just "shrug" that off as the "norm" when it ISNT and try to blame anything other than the sham deer plan when its obvious is beyond me brother!

Ya got areas with 50% or more less deer! You have a completely smug irresponsive agency, and they cant figure out why so many are quitting....DUH!!

No. I dont believe they are idiots. Ibelieve they know EXACTLY why, they just dont want to take the responsibility for it and have no plans on "fixing" it by addressing the problem.

There is a lot more factors than a few less deer in the woods attributing to this. Trust me, I know. I have a 10 year old step son who is into all types of sports and other activities. He's interested in hunting, but we can't find the time to get him out. Heck, I have a hard time getting out as much as I'd like to because of the kids' activites.

Sproul, you made the comment that the dads' are shooting deer for the kids. If it is that serious of a problem in your area, do something about it. Call your local WCO and put the bug in his ear. If these hunters feel watched, they'll probably knock it off. However, I don't feel that's the only issue here. Think about it. That type of thing has been going on long before any management program was in place. Most kids usually only get to hunt a few days at the beginning of the week. They're usually in school by the end of the week and get a couple Saturdays after that.

Bottom line is us as hunters need to take more responsibility for our actions and not blame the PGC for everything that goes wrong in your neck of the woods. I hunt of well managed private property. We've been going by an 8pt rule for years. However, our buck/doe ratio was terrible for years. This was until the surrounding prison property opened up and left hunters kill does. They've been taking approximately 150 deer a year off of there for the past 10-15 years. Not only has our buck harvest been better, but our deer our heavier now. Seems to me that what has happened on our ground and surrounding prison property is what is now happening state wide.