SwampCollie

Let me take a deep deep breath because this is going to get long.....

If I had the technology to accurately measure them I would have done it just to see for myself.

The reason the whole thing peaked my interest is because my family and I have been shooting hevi-shot since before Remington even started loading it in the late 1990s. If I recall, it got federal approval sometime around 1994-95, and Remington started with it around 1999. We used to use NOTHING but 2 3/4" 1 1/4 of #6s. We would load them as our first shell, and then back up with two steel loads (we thought it was ridiculous back then when it was $8-10/box ). I shot ducks close, ducks far, ducks ridiculously too far, geese near, geese far, and even over the years took two swans using #6 hevi out of a 2 3/4" shell. That said, when I bought two cases of Hevi-Duck in summer of 2006, (at dealer discount pricing thank God) I thought I was getting more of the same. Only thing is that in all those years of shooting over 50 and as many as 120 ducks and geese per season, I can seldom remember EVER having to shoot a cripple when we dropped a duck with the first shell. And keep in mind that those numbers were JUST MINE.... and my father, grandfather and our other two good hunting partners and thats a whole mess of ducks and maybe one out of every 30 or so needed a second dose just to be safe.

Back in those days, we didn't have a dog. And I remember one season when I broke 100 birds sitting down to dinner with everyone and toasting the fact that we had not lost a single bird that entire season NOT ONE! I gotDutch in early 2006... so his first season and hevi-ducks first season in my gun was the 06-07 duck season.

When I started shooting hevi-duck.... the results we were getting changed drastically. Not only were birds hitting the water with their heads up, I actually lost a couple birds that year (even with the dog, who is damn good to boot), and we had almost every other bird go down alive and we werehaving to sluce them. It reminded me of steel....because lets be honest here, no matter how great anyone thinks they can shoot, you are lying to yourself if you have really ever shot ducks with lead, real hevi-shot or any of the other high densitys, and then say that steel kills "just as good". Sure dead is dead... but thats like saying a dull knife cuts as good as a sharp one.... sure the end result is two pieces of steak instead of just one.... but when you slap ducks dead in the air at 40 yards for years on end, then have to start shooting almost every duck again at 30 yards... come 'on now!

So in wake of that I read a couple of independent studies and articles done on the types of non-tox on the market.... and after several phone calls and three or four emails.. I finally got Environmetal to honestly tell me that the per pellet density of Hevi-shot "duck" is not what the per pellet density of Hevi-shot was. They guarded it like a matter of national security... and if you ask me, its really a fine piece of marketing slight of hand that cost me about $450 dollars. I'm still sitting on about half a case of the crap.

When Remington stopped loading Hevi-shot, and Environmetal took back over, they changed the lines from just hevi-shot to hevi-shot duck and hevi-shot goose (Hevi-steel came out in 2004 I believe). I was working at a gun shop in Charleston, SC and we set up a direct account with them and I remember being on speakerphone with a lady in Oregon, and my boss and I and another duck hunter that worked there talked through some questions and then we placed an order for well over 100 cases of various loads in various lengths.

One of the things I asked them, was what the difference with duck and goose was. She started saying how they had marketed it for different types of hunters because duck hunters typically want faster lighter payloads..... I cut her off and said something along the lines of..."Just like Remington did, but putting a goose on the larger shot, heavier payload and a duck on the smaller shot lighter payload." Her response was "Yes, thats the same idea."

And oh if only that was the case.....

Here are the real numbers as best I remember them, and forgive me because I know I left a few out that I simply have no idea where they fall (such as NICE shot): Density is measured in grams/Cubic Centimeter (g/cc):


Bismuth: 7.6g/cc (that one I'm not sure about, but I know its right at/around the same density as steel.... only its soft like lead is).
Cheap Steel: varies depending onwho you believebut is generally around 7.6-7.8 g/cc
Steel (High Antimony "Premium" or "Supreme"):7.9g/cc
Hevi-Steel: 9.3g/cc
Hevi-shot "duck" (apparently the new "classic doubles" is around this number as well): 9.6g/cc
Lead: 10.8g/cc (Pure lead is 11g/cc, but there are always traces of other metals in the lead we use in shotgun shells to help it keep its form as best as possible)
Kent Tungsten Matrix: 11g/cc
Hevi-shot (original and now "Goose"):12g/cc (rem wingmaster and Win High Density are the same density)
Hevi-13: 13g/cc (hence the 13)
Federal Heavy Weight:15g/cc
Tungsten Super Shot: 18g/cc


Now, that said, Hevi-shot goose is the REAL DEAL. It is exactly the same as what we all used to know collectively as "Hevi-shot," its the same stuff Remington loaded for several years. It seems to me that the first 20 gauge loads (2006 and even some in 2007) that Environmetal loaded in 20 gauge were infact Hevi-shot goose.... and the packaging had both a duck and a goose on it...which is why if you shoot a 20 or shot one then, you may not notice a difference in performance compared to the old Rem loaded hevi-shot. Now, Wingmaster is a softer, rounder version of hevi-shot, only its loaded in a watertight, premium shell rather than the Cheddite "Rust-o-matic" hulls that Environmetal is using.

This has gone on too damn long and I appologise for carrying on like a money in a tree. Let me get down to the final point here.....

The reason I'm so adamant about folks NOT using hevi-shot duck is that I feel Environmetal has deceived the consumer. Looking at their boxes and reading everything, I don't think they have done anything criminal, but they are relying on the success and name of hevi-shot that Remington built up for them/with them, in order to hock a product that is NOT the same as it once was. When asked about it, they often send out a mass produced email that does not specifically say it is a different mix of metals, and therefore not as dense.

What REALLY gets me mad, is that they sell it for at least (and often more) $22/box (average, 3.5" are way more), while they sell the hevi-goose for often just a few dollars more at $24-25/box. Hevi-duck is really less than .5g/cc more dense than hevi-steel.... yet it sells for around $2.20/shell. Hevi-steel (which is better than steel and what I shoot out of my 12 bore guns primarily now...I think they are finally going to offer it in 20 gauge for 2008), sells for $30/box, but its a box of 25 rather than 10.... so it comes out to $1.20/shell. Thats a $3 difference everytime you empty the gun.... So I encourage people to either shoot hevi-steel or spend the extra dough for hevi-goose or wingmaster.

Truth be known, I'm still looking for something relatively affordable and comparable because I don't want to give anymore of my money to a company who I think has broken a better business practice.

Rant off.... again sorry it went on so long [:@]