I understand that too. I guess the guys in my circle are refering to the fair weather guys, the once every 2 week guys that kill a deer this size. Take GMATT for example, he is not included in this category. He has bow hunted for only 3 yrs I think, but he has hunted more in those 3 yrs than many guys I know that call themselves bowhunters have their entire life. His knowledge of deer is quite impressive and he has already taken some nice bucks. He has put his time in in just 3 yrs, but he has deserved it from what I can tell.