hey camo in all fairness never tried the goliath, anddon't own a TL but have used a few, like liquid mentioned idon't think there is a single climber that fits every situation, and what is comfortable for one may not be comfortable to all due to size of the person, injuries that a person has (i have a messed up back),the way one sits in a particular climber, or the weight of the climber itself

but i got to admit this picture looks pretty comfortable and summit has a lot of things i really like, like the ease of adjusting climber angle on the newer climbers and like imentioned i still use my SOP device. but i have used a viper and i really didn't like it as well as my ol'man but i will try a goliath and give a fair report, like i mentioned they are still (i think) made close by and i would really rather support a business that employs US workers and our local economy, from what i understand the current version of Ol'man is made across the pond[:@]