LLS, I don't belive Wimp is bashing the gun hunters, he's bashing the "first day" in PA. I agree with him 100%, but you know what, I wouldn't miss it for the world. The issue is not gun hunters it's PA. I spent 4 days last week in Dallas on business, found out a few of the guys at the meeting were hunters, one from west Texas, the other from Arkansas. I had pictures of my archery buck(8 point) saved on my laptop. When they both saw the pictures they said, "not to be rude, but we would never shoot that deer." Maybe if we respected the resource, the "first day" would be more enjoyable for all. gibster