I'm with Atlasman on this one. Welcome back Atlas. I was watching a hunting show yesterday. The guy shot a younger buck.(His last day of hunting.... hmmmmmm??) Anyway, first words out of his mouth, "Nice management buck". Give me a break. If I shot the dang thing he'd tell me I should have let it grow up for the "HEALTH of the HERD". He gives up and doesn't want to eat tag soup he calls it a "Management buck". LOL. And you're right about the NY deer Atlas. They're butter ball fat and weigh more at a year and a half than most of those "Well Managed" deer in Texas at 4 or 5. They might look a little beat up after10 or 11 feet of snow in the winter but they bounce right back. Right on Atlasman.[8D]