Here's a show stopper for you.Jack lott had a 8 bore double BP rifle that fired a 2 oz ball and backed by 12 drams of FG powder.Also had a 1200gr conical mold and was in the process of working up loads for that.The gun weighs 16 lbs.and has 22" barrels.Four bores used a1882gr bullet and 14 drams of powder.Can't imagine touching that off .Both of these outdo the Nitro-Express cartridges from H+H.......Harold