Thanks everyone, we have shot the .410 at a turkey target and at 20 yards it wraps up the head. I will not be able to back him up the first weekend, as it is youth day. We will be shooting again this weekend and we are going to take both guns over and I think he will try the 20 gauge. We open up on the 7th of April and I will report back. Thanks again, good luck to every one!!