If you think dealers try to make bad deals with you guys you should try being in my shoes... Im 16 and I probably know 10 time as much about any gun any time than most of these dealers and they try to make sales pitches to me. I dont know how many times ive heard "you'll never find a buy like this ever again" when i can pick up and sporting catalogue and auotmaticly knock off 200 bucks. I go to gun shows to sell items that i pick up dirt cheap, only thing is i sell or trade them for whatever is reasonable, if i break even great, i get a deal even better. I hate people assuming that because im young im uninformed. Last gun show i went to i had a dealer explaining to me how unsafe ross rifles could be. This idiot didnt know there are different models of rosses and assumed that all ross bolts can "blow back". I let him go on his rant then proved to him it was impossable for the bolt to "fly" out of his rifle because it wasa 1905 model. I walked away while he way trying to put the bolt back in the rifle after i told him how it actauly came out, lol, Putting a 1905 ross bolt back is kind of tricky if you dont know how to do it.